Bashing other games is a big one. Certainly guilty of it.
I think we do it as we like to think the path we have chosen is the better one, and the path we left behind is suddenly very wrong, so we have to bring unbelievers to the light. "Repent of your heathen D6 ways!". There is some tribal stuff going on too.
A lot of Infinity players I know enjoy multiple systems, and in helping to build my own community i've had to stop the bashing. I easily forgot what fun I did have with 40k before it no longer worked for me.
Showcasing what the game does is definitely the way forward. And respecting the gamers of other systems. A buddy sent me a text the other day saying he was "playing a real game" (40k). Instead of replying with a tirade I just said I was happy he was getting game time in no matter the dice shape.
Community Building 101
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Well, snobfinity is still better than fapfinity.
I think I can contain myself in person (perhaps it's my fear to appear too invested
), but in web, well, I rarely say nice things about 40k or fantasy).
I think I can contain myself in person (perhaps it's my fear to appear too invested
), but in web, well, I rarely say nice things about 40k or fantasy).[insert witty comment]
The Infinity community here in Northern Ireland seems to have had an initial splurge followed by a substantial die off to the stage where only a few people are still playing. Many players have gone back to their comfort zones of 40K and Warmachine and a few have taken up Malifaux or Dystopian legions but their is almost no desire to play Infinity despite a number of regular tournaments last year.
I asked a few people about this at a FLGS today and they all mentioned Infinity's steep learning curve as a factor that drove people away, things like AD troops and Link Teams seemed "broken" and after loosing to these tactics once or twice some players "rage quit" the system (their own words BTW). This is despite near universal love for the minis and an appreciation for the "Always your turn" system.
A bit of context about NI is that for a long long time 40K was king, basically unchallenged here apart form an older set of historical only gamers. Even when Warmachine came on the scene it didn't make much of an impact. Many local players, in fact most local players started with 40K and this is still the most widely played game (even though every person I talk to seems to hate 6th ed with a passion). Allot of wargamers have been priced out of GW games now and are looking into other systems.
The net result of this is a "netlist" mentality were people play lists expecting to win games with them and not tactics, this is really obvious at local tournaments where Grey Knights ruled the day until suddenly Necron flyer lists were everywhere. While there is a small amount of listbuilding in Infinity its nowhere near as prevalent as in 40K or Warmachine which is why I expect many former 40K and short lived Infinity players have switched to Warmachine and Hordes.
I'm not sure what the situation is south of the border, though I know there are a good few Infinity players in Dublin. Its just surprising that Infinity is not nearly as popular here as it should be.
Anyone had similar experiences?
I asked a few people about this at a FLGS today and they all mentioned Infinity's steep learning curve as a factor that drove people away, things like AD troops and Link Teams seemed "broken" and after loosing to these tactics once or twice some players "rage quit" the system (their own words BTW). This is despite near universal love for the minis and an appreciation for the "Always your turn" system.
A bit of context about NI is that for a long long time 40K was king, basically unchallenged here apart form an older set of historical only gamers. Even when Warmachine came on the scene it didn't make much of an impact. Many local players, in fact most local players started with 40K and this is still the most widely played game (even though every person I talk to seems to hate 6th ed with a passion). Allot of wargamers have been priced out of GW games now and are looking into other systems.
The net result of this is a "netlist" mentality were people play lists expecting to win games with them and not tactics, this is really obvious at local tournaments where Grey Knights ruled the day until suddenly Necron flyer lists were everywhere. While there is a small amount of listbuilding in Infinity its nowhere near as prevalent as in 40K or Warmachine which is why I expect many former 40K and short lived Infinity players have switched to Warmachine and Hordes.
I'm not sure what the situation is south of the border, though I know there are a good few Infinity players in Dublin. Its just surprising that Infinity is not nearly as popular here as it should be.
Anyone had similar experiences?
- Deep-Green-X
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Well, it's completely different here. 40K was and still is the dominant SF wargame, but never to the extent that you mention. It was expensive, for one, and in those times many Polish gamers didn't exactly have the cash for something that may or may not catch on (that was the time of 2nd ed. 40K, with huge gaps in models that you had to mail-order from the range of 1st ed. models). Another thing is that 40 was translated to Polish only a few years ago, but the first edition of Warzone (and later Chronopia and a few other systems) snatched that niche from GW, setting up ground for alternative games. Their comparatively worse minis weren't a problem, seeing as 40K-2 was chock-full of monopose plastic models that were utter shit.
Fast-forward to a year or so ago, when I started getting back into wargaming. Warzone/Chronopia came and went, but (at least WZ) still have a devoted community and surprisingly are not dead (there's even a new fan edition a lot of real work went into), many people play historicals of various scales and periods, from FoW usually played on a 6mm scale to pretty much everything under heaven, he have our own mainstream wargame set in 17th century Poland, there's a smattering of small groups for alternative systems (Spartan Games, Malifaux, Anima Tactics)- many of those don't have the critical mass/retailer support, and there's Infinity.
Infinity is here to stay and pretty much is stable in all major (regional) cities. I commute to the capital so I have the pleasure of having a large community, but it's by no means limited here. There's one officially CB-partnered retailer in several cities, and quite a few gaming stores carry a few items for Infinity and can order more. The number of people who have played the game/heard about it/minis sold is enough to keep the interest stable for years to come. However, the groups are wildly different. Lublin used to have a very active group doing regular tournaments with prizes and basically putting Warsaw's activity to shame, but there's been a lull lately while Warsaw has concentrated more on longer league games - we've had a 6-mission 150pt league, then another season of a "slow-grow" one, and now like 20 people playing/participating in Campaign Paradiso. There's a significant non-forum activity, every now and then I pop into the store to find people completely unknown to me playing Infinity. I also know of at least 3 active gamers that started it last month, some drawn in by the Tohaa.
As far as the meta goes, the community is far from being unified; sure, we play each other every now and then, we constantly talk about rules, minis and what not on Wargamer's forum, but there aren't many large events; put us in a big tournament and there's a lot of WTF going on. For example, Yu Jing is very sneaky: from what you hear you'd believe that 90% of people play Haqq or Ariadna, as older gamers that have the anime cravings behind them, but the actual distribution is far from that and JSA tactics appeal to many gamers, myself included (I bought a big bunch of
and one day said "hey, I can actually make a decent 200pt JSA list with what I have, gotta try it out", you know how it went 
).
And speaking of new gamers ragequitting after getting pummeled by a vet, that's one of the reasons I learned to make balanced lists, because I don't rely on hard capabilities against them. If I take AD, it's usually a combi variant. No massed smoke/MSV2 against newbies, no TAGs, etc.; of course they invariably demand to see what I'm holding back and the gloves come off (and I start AD-ing TAGs ), but hey, they asked for it. It also helps that I'm not a very good player 
I also don't frequent 40k/newbie gamers' fora, and that's where the quitters seem to head (if anywhere), as we rarely have them in the Infinity ones.
TL,DR: you are a lazy person and you should be ashamed for skipping to this. Go read the post.
Fast-forward to a year or so ago, when I started getting back into wargaming. Warzone/Chronopia came and went, but (at least WZ) still have a devoted community and surprisingly are not dead (there's even a new fan edition a lot of real work went into), many people play historicals of various scales and periods, from FoW usually played on a 6mm scale to pretty much everything under heaven, he have our own mainstream wargame set in 17th century Poland, there's a smattering of small groups for alternative systems (Spartan Games, Malifaux, Anima Tactics)- many of those don't have the critical mass/retailer support, and there's Infinity.
Infinity is here to stay and pretty much is stable in all major (regional) cities. I commute to the capital so I have the pleasure of having a large community, but it's by no means limited here. There's one officially CB-partnered retailer in several cities, and quite a few gaming stores carry a few items for Infinity and can order more. The number of people who have played the game/heard about it/minis sold is enough to keep the interest stable for years to come. However, the groups are wildly different. Lublin used to have a very active group doing regular tournaments with prizes and basically putting Warsaw's activity to shame, but there's been a lull lately while Warsaw has concentrated more on longer league games - we've had a 6-mission 150pt league, then another season of a "slow-grow" one, and now like 20 people playing/participating in Campaign Paradiso. There's a significant non-forum activity, every now and then I pop into the store to find people completely unknown to me playing Infinity. I also know of at least 3 active gamers that started it last month, some drawn in by the Tohaa.
As far as the meta goes, the community is far from being unified; sure, we play each other every now and then, we constantly talk about rules, minis and what not on Wargamer's forum, but there aren't many large events; put us in a big tournament and there's a lot of WTF going on. For example, Yu Jing is very sneaky: from what you hear you'd believe that 90% of people play Haqq or Ariadna, as older gamers that have the anime cravings behind them, but the actual distribution is far from that and JSA tactics appeal to many gamers, myself included (I bought a big bunch of
and one day said "hey, I can actually make a decent 200pt JSA list with what I have, gotta try it out", you know how it went ).And speaking of new gamers ragequitting after getting pummeled by a vet, that's one of the reasons I learned to make balanced lists, because I don't rely on hard capabilities against them. If I take AD, it's usually a combi variant. No massed smoke/MSV2 against newbies, no TAGs, etc.; of course they invariably demand to see what I'm holding back and the gloves come off (and I start AD-ing TAGs
), but hey, they asked for it. It also helps that I'm not a very good player I also don't frequent 40k/newbie gamers' fora, and that's where the quitters seem to head (if anywhere), as we rarely have them in the Infinity ones.TL,DR: you are a lazy person and you should be ashamed for skipping to this. Go read the post.
The benefit of working at a hobby shop with a boss who insists on 'uniforms' is I am always pretty clean looking unless im covered in paint or other hobby stuff.
That being said, the bashing of games is a big one for and against. I have a local group of WM/H players who also play MERCS and Dark Age, they have developed a sense of entitlement and snobbish attitudes toward every game that isn't one of those games. Infinity however has been a favorite target of theirs for a long time, so long that it still is INCREDIBLY difficult for me to get my bosses to stock it to legitimate levels despite it outselling MERCS and Dark Age combined(in total despite Infinity not being really stocked) and having weeks where it outsells WM/H(I owe this mostly due to a lot of new players starting in groups).
It just goes to show what kind of damage trash talking can do. That even though there is monetary reasons to stock Infinity better, I still face an up hill battle with it. Being an employee at the store means there are times where I do have to sell MERCS which I am not opposed to, however I also prefer honesty, if a customer asks me about my opinion on all the games we carry, I will tell them that I find MERCS to be the least enjoyable of them all, but not to let that stop them because we do have a dedicated community backing it.
That being said, the bashing of games is a big one for and against. I have a local group of WM/H players who also play MERCS and Dark Age, they have developed a sense of entitlement and snobbish attitudes toward every game that isn't one of those games. Infinity however has been a favorite target of theirs for a long time, so long that it still is INCREDIBLY difficult for me to get my bosses to stock it to legitimate levels despite it outselling MERCS and Dark Age combined(in total despite Infinity not being really stocked) and having weeks where it outsells WM/H(I owe this mostly due to a lot of new players starting in groups).
It just goes to show what kind of damage trash talking can do. That even though there is monetary reasons to stock Infinity better, I still face an up hill battle with it. Being an employee at the store means there are times where I do have to sell MERCS which I am not opposed to, however I also prefer honesty, if a customer asks me about my opinion on all the games we carry, I will tell them that I find MERCS to be the least enjoyable of them all, but not to let that stop them because we do have a dedicated community backing it.
- Aisriyth
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Reading responses above its clear that a good FLGS in your area is a bit part in getting a number of different game systems played. Here in Belfast we had no good FLGS for wargames for a long time, we've had some smaller stores but these have mostly catered to Magic The Gathering and other CCG's witch considering the obscene profits involved is not surprising. I was at a place over the weekend where all the existing wargames stock, paints and minis for a number of systems has all disappeared in favour of MTG related stock, it was a bit disheartening as there's no place in the city to buy any wargame minis outside of GW Belfast.
Its odd that despite having the highest population density north of the border, Belfast has never had a large FLGS where wargames were played on a regular basis at least not in my memory. There are some good stores in other city's like Larne and Portstewert and there used to have a dedicated large gaming centre and shop based out of an old ice cream factory called Arkham which sadly went through an implosion of an epic scale two years ago. In Dublin they're lucky to have Gamers World which is one of the best examples of a gaming shop I've ever seen.
Its odd that despite having the highest population density north of the border, Belfast has never had a large FLGS where wargames were played on a regular basis at least not in my memory. There are some good stores in other city's like Larne and Portstewert and there used to have a dedicated large gaming centre and shop based out of an old ice cream factory called Arkham which sadly went through an implosion of an epic scale two years ago. In Dublin they're lucky to have Gamers World which is one of the best examples of a gaming shop I've ever seen.
- Deep-Green-X
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Yes, having a FLGS can be huge. Saturday my group is playing a little 1v1v1 game, and these three kids come up, interested. I let them browse through my books while my buddy talks them up. We share a ton of web info and even by them a couple d20s. Now there's 3 new players in Castle Rock. 
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Puprednuht - Posts: 56
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Local hardcore WM/H players are ALL ex-GW and 40k players (2nd ed) who felt burned when GW changed the game come 3rd ed and got out of 40k when WM hit the scene.
They do seem to have a sense of entitlement (no different from a lot of others in the current generation, really) and ARE the biggest bashers of games other than theirs.
I'm known for being the guy to come to for infinity at my club. I don't push the game like a fanboy, claiming it to be the best thing since the last best thing. If they are interested, they come to me, and I run them through some trial games, where I cover movement and shooting, camo and close combat, and hacking and FO/GML. If they are after anything in an army, I point them to Fury. He's our local metal-crack dealer.
I remind them that the rules, army lists, templates and markers are ALL FREE to download, and that a 10 model army can be had for less than $150 AUD (which yields a playable force for iNfinity, and is cheaper than GW's Battleforces or fantasy equivalent boxes which don't).
Kent_Fury getting into the game has done more for it in my region than any of my pushing.
They do seem to have a sense of entitlement (no different from a lot of others in the current generation, really) and ARE the biggest bashers of games other than theirs.
I'm known for being the guy to come to for infinity at my club. I don't push the game like a fanboy, claiming it to be the best thing since the last best thing. If they are interested, they come to me, and I run them through some trial games, where I cover movement and shooting, camo and close combat, and hacking and FO/GML. If they are after anything in an army, I point them to Fury. He's our local metal-crack dealer.
I remind them that the rules, army lists, templates and markers are ALL FREE to download, and that a 10 model army can be had for less than $150 AUD (which yields a playable force for iNfinity, and is cheaper than GW's Battleforces or fantasy equivalent boxes which don't).Kent_Fury getting into the game has done more for it in my region than any of my pushing.
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