Operation Icestorm

[Plebian]

If we are getting it at Gencon, can we preorder and not pay for shipping to ensure it doesn't sell out?

[BakuninLover]

Although the Brigada is a fantastic model I see a problem in my mind. I always had the feeling they where wearing outdated armor. Now they look top of the line, hyper modern HI, makes the Aquila Guard or Swiss guard look like the ones being outdated and less tech.

I also liked the old helmet with tubes sticking out of it. Also what is the need to set a standard for Nomad HI, we only have the Grrrls so far and they won't be resculpted in a foreseeable future.

[ElectricPaladin]

I also liked the old helmet with tubes sticking out of it. Also what is the need to set a standard for Nomad HI, we only have the Grrrls so far and they won't be resculpted in a foreseeable future.

We've been tossing this idea back and forth. The most common guesses are:

1) Carlos misspoke
b. Tunguska is getting a HI, part of the trend for every sectorial getting at least one of each basic troop type.
III - Some other Nomads sectorial is getting a second HI, but nobody has any idea which it would be.

[MarcoSkoll]

I just counted nomads, I understand other factions may be more biased, I choose nomads cause I like em.

Nomads aren't perhaps the best choice, what with three linkable all-female units (Custodiers, Moiras and Grrls).

To provide a contrary example, Haqq has 55 males to 22 females (or 21, if you don't count the Mag pilot), even with a linkable all-female unit to its name.
To take it a little further, counting up Haqq units with more than one release but no women*, I think there are seven: KTS, Sekban, Hafza, Janissaries**, Asawira, Ragiks, Azra'il.

*Although I've fielded conversions for four of these, and will eventually get off my butt for at least one more.
**That said, I have a niggling feeling that the fluff for Janissaries may be male specific. Ermmm... *reads* ... unclear. While the recruitment is very like the Janissaries of history, it's not explicitly gendered in the same way as the Observance fluff is.

I suppose if more discussions needs to happen we could make a new thread or pm.

As much as I feel naughty for posting off-topic, I do admit it's not that easy a subject to drop. Although whether the mods will allow Voldemort***... sorry, the-thread-that-must-not-be-named is another question.

***Apparently, we don't have strikethrough text on this forum yet.

[IJW Wartrader]

b. Tunguska is getting a HI, part of the trend for every sectorial getting at least one of each basic troop type.

That'd be the Kriza Borak, mentioned way back at GenCon last year as being a new HI for Tunguska, and I think even mentioned somewhere in the main rulebook.

[MarcoSkoll]

They're in the comic at the bottom of page 79, same one as the Mongol cavalry.

[Maru]

KTS - they are in Heavy Hasmat suits - no idea who is inside such one - it may be full Female unit - no matter who they look badass
o and btw -
Templates (direct ones ) in 3 ED auto hit or roll for hit ?

[macfergusson]

KTS - they are in Heavy Hasmat suits - no idea who is inside such one - it may be full Female unit - no matter who they look badass
o and btw -
Templates (direct ones ) in 3 ED auto hit or roll for hit ?

DTW does not appear to be changing.

[MarcoSkoll]

Hasmat suits - no idea who is inside such one

*Insert sarcasm here*

[BakuninLover]

anyways the amazing Brigada just seems a bit TOO flashy imho... would have liked a more rugged feeling. Maybe it grows on me..

[nobunaga3.2]

b. Tunguska is getting a HI, part of the trend for every sectorial getting at least one of each basic troop type.

That'd be the Kriza Borak, mentioned way back at GenCon last year as being a new HI for Tunguska, and I think even mentioned somewhere in the main rulebook.

yep that's the one we know about - there could also be others as well and since the style is also hinted at in the Iguana,a new Sally and Iggy might also draw from the style. - fingers crossed....

[Maru]

Hasmat suits - no idea who is inside such one

*Insert sarcasm here*

Thats special Sexy out Hasmat suit edicion - you go to bed with it if you want to "to the danger zone "

[Mob of Blondes]

If we want this hobby to be less of a sausage fest.

Nobody remembers the illustrations demostrating Infinity in which one player was female and the other male? Maybe thing of the past.

From what we learned yesterday thanks to Bostria, factions seem to be now taking advantage of the 3D computer sculpting and building up from the bases of other designs. Such as the alguaciles being built up into the mobile brigade and more strongly with the fusiliers being built up into everything else in the PanO starter.

I don't think we've really seen this design philosophy much before, right?

You mean reusing masters and greens to create variations and derivatives? It's pretty old, Perry twins even mentioned that some "originals" are no more, because they got chopped. Just because it's done in a computer, in the Internet, in the cloud, in whatever latest trend doesn't make it new land.

[jake]

I also liked the old helmet with tubes sticking out of it. Also what is the need to set a standard for Nomad HI, we only have the Grrrls so far and they won't be resculpted in a foreseeable future.

We've been tossing this idea back and forth. The most common guesses are:

1) Carlos misspoke
b. Tunguska is getting a HI, part of the trend for every sectorial getting at least one of each basic troop type.
III - Some other Nomads sectorial is getting a second HI, but nobody has any idea which it would be.

My impression was that when he said that the digital model would be used to create more Nomad HI, he meant more Mobile Brigada, which he then said would be coming soon. Not just Mobile Brigada though, but I think when he alluded to multiple HI coming out of the design he meant "including Mobile Brigda", not in addition to. So I think what we can expect is more Mobile Brigada, as well as that new Krispy Borat HI you guys keep talking about.

[Machinist]

Another question, Surprise Shot (unlike current combat camouflage) works in ARO too ?

[coleslaw]

No, only in active turn. It's in the Icestorm rules.

[ElectricPaladin]

I also liked the old helmet with tubes sticking out of it. Also what is the need to set a standard for Nomad HI, we only have the Grrrls so far and they won't be resculpted in a foreseeable future.

We've been tossing this idea back and forth. The most common guesses are:

1) Carlos misspoke
b. Tunguska is getting a HI, part of the trend for every sectorial getting at least one of each basic troop type.
III - Some other Nomads sectorial is getting a second HI, but nobody has any idea which it would be.

My impression was that when he said that the digital model would be used to create more Nomad HI, he meant more Mobile Brigada, which he then said would be coming soon. Not just Mobile Brigada though, but I think when he alluded to multiple HI coming out of the design he meant "including Mobile Brigda", not in addition to. So I think what we can expect is more Mobile Brigada, as well as that new Krispy Borat HI you guys keep talking about.

Hm. The trouble is that "the current mobile brigada will serve as a model for future mobile brigadas" seems like a dumb thing for Carlos to point out. What - did he think we were expecting the rest of the mobile brigada line to look completely different? I think it's pretty obvious that either he misspoke, mistranslated, or was specifically referring to a specific Nomad HI that we will see on the soon side (because the concept art or possibly even early sculpts are recent enough to be on Carlos's mind).

[McNamara]

I believe Nomads where just a bad example for the process, and I wouldn't read to much into it. The Kriza Borac will probably be based on the MB, and the MB is based on the Iguana Operator. Thats it. Maybe there is a 4th Nomad HI, maybe not.

With Pan-O and Yu Jing this will be much more relevant a visible, I'd guess. The Hac Tao already gets redone to fit the Terracotta, and Sun Tze is most likely already based on it too. And maybe you even can see this process with Haqq, if they start redoing all there HI at one point. The Al Fassed will based on the new Janissary for sure.
Azra Il and Asawira could need a 3rd sculpt but if they base them on the new 3d this 3rd one might look out of place next to the other 2, so maybe this will take some time. Or not. Who Knows, but CB.

[Errhile]

Azra'il definitely needs the 3rd sculpt (Spitfire loadout), but with AVA 3 in QK, it would then make a Karakuri-like set... unless they decide to make another Panzerfaust model to bring it to 4 (on the basis of it being the most popular one, plus QK abundance of Holoprojectors) to release a single Azra'il Box Set of 1 SKU (and 4 models) instead of having the exisitng 2 plus the Spitfire as 3rd.

Asawira... Well, there are 5 profiles, but much less weapon / equipment options:
1. Spitfire, who is already represented.
2. AP rifle, 3 flavours - Shock CCW, EXP CCW, Lieutenant (Shock CCW). Aptly represented by the AP Rifle Asawira.
3. Doctor. Since he packs same AP Rifle + Shock CCW, it would be pretty tough to expect CB to make a separate mini of him, given they rarely release Doctor (and never - Paramedics) models for units other than faction's basic Doctor. Since Haqq don't have Daktari / TraumaDoc / 112 / Zanshi doc equivalent, we had to content ourselves with a Ghulam Doc (now in her 2nd incarnation), and convert / different by paintjob any Doc in a different unit...

Though the appearance of Tomcat Doctor brings in some hope...

[MarcoSkoll]

Asawira... Well, there are 5 profiles, but much less weapon / equipment options

It is an AVA 4 unit in HB, which will come into play more often with 400pt ITS now a reality.
And there have oft been two models for the same loadout. Ignoring line infantry (which have a decent excuse), it's only recently that they got rid of one of the Interventor blisters, for example.

That said, I'd want to veto 4 model boxes for Azra'il and Asawira as they're only AVA 1 in Vanilla and don't (as you say) have enough load-outs that it can be excused as giving you all the options, so maybe the SKU argument covers it.
Still, doesn't really mean that one of the releases already done couldn't've been. (Although, the Spitfire one proved androgynous enough to be convertable - well, actually, I "mis-saw" it first time and then decided I had to have the model I thought I'd seen).

[Errhile]

Personally I have my dfirst Rifle Asawira awaiting to be converted into a Doctor...

[MarcoSkoll]

Actually, I've used my girl so much as a Doctor (she was converted with an AP rifle) that I'm strongly considering taking off the incomplete paint-job and finding somewhere to fit a med-kit on the model.

[nobunaga3.2]

My impression was that when he said that the digital model would be used to create more Nomad HI, he meant more Mobile Brigada, which he then said would be coming soon. Not just Mobile Brigada though, but I think when he alluded to multiple HI coming out of the design he meant "including Mobile Brigda", not in addition to. So I think what we can expect is more Mobile Brigada, as well as that new Krispy Borat HI you guys keep talking about.

that certainly wasn't my impression, he seemed to be talking about other HI, and we know that there is at least one more coming out but maybe there will be more....

[McNamara]

... eventually.

[naztek]

Look, this may have already been covered and I've missed it but with the new camo rules, does a model remain camo'd after the FtF roll with all the modifiers? Or does an attack still reveal the model?
I kind of got the impression from the BoW vid that a model would remain as a camo marker until discovered and that the surprise modifier would continue for all others who tried to gun it down.

[Claudius Sol]

Pretty sure the model reveals itself. I can't say for certain, but that would make the most sense to me. Otherwise, how are you to know what's shooting at you?

[Mistake Not]

Now, aside from having multiple different models of the same weapons, the Nomads have different models of the same armour. And so it goes, on and on, progress marches ahead and even the old is recycled and reused and improved. It is the Nomad way.

With Icestorm I can field a link of three Brigada, or five if I paint these two retired ORC models as more Brigada..

[macfergusson]

New episode of MayaCast had a couple more notes about N3 rules revealed/confirmed:

• Ties on F2F rolls are a draw, regardless of who has a higher modified stat. Uncertain if this is a simplification for IceStorm or permanent for N3. contradicted by Bostria on the Advanced IceStorm mission BoW video. No changes from 2nd ed.
  
  
• If both rolls crit, it is a tie, regardless of the number on the dice.
  
• Their interpretation of the Silhouette rules from actually reading the rules text appears that it is actually a cylinder rule. Silhouette determines Base and Height (area and height for volume of a cylinder).
  
• Clarification of how setup plays out: All decisions for initiative and deployment are made prior to any deployment.
  
• Using Lt order definitely actually reveals your Lt. No need for various ideas of mixing it in to your Order Reserve or however your local meta does it.
  
• Loss of Lieutenant causes all troops to be Irregular for that turn, new Lt is automatically appointed at the end of that turn. Religious will have to change obviously.
  
• Camo's Surprise Shot (-3 additional penalty for opponent on F2F roll) only applies in Active Turn.
  
• Combat Jump's dispersion on a failure has changed to "walk on the board in your own DZ." No more scattering, results in a safer deployment but puts you far away from where you wanted to be. Simplified rule. N3 will be a set dispersion distance of 16".
  
• Normal Infiltration no longer can deploy past centerline. Simplified rules. N3 will be a flat PH-3 for aggressive Infiltration, failure results in forced deployment to your own DZ. (Back of the line!)
  
• MSV1 reduces visibility penalties by 3, MSV2 reduces visibility penalties by 6.
  
• Translation and rules text much stronger and more concise.
  
• True N3 Quick Start rules should be available at GenCon.

Also bear in mind that this episode was their drink recipe contest, so there may have been some alcoholic impact.

Personally, I feel like a lot of the times people have said "this might be simplified for IceStorm" may actually be the true basis of the rule for N3. It seems to be consistently trying to remove some things that often slow down the game, or cause questions about what information and rolls should be revealed ahead of time.

[Claudius Sol]

I'm not all that opposed to that list if changes. The combat jump one seems... Off. I hope that's just an Icestorm thing.

[macfergusson]

I'm not all that opposed to that list if changes. The combat jump one seems... Off. I hope that's just an Icestorm thing.

It's definitely unexpected. Thinking about it, though, I kind of like it. Instead of risking the troop entirely, you simply risk its ability to be at all useful right away. And unless something else changes, you can always level down to AD2 and risk no roll at all.

Dispersion in general is definitely something that would be nice to reduce where possible. It is something that really puts a halt to the action in the game, in my opinion.