Operation Icestorm

[Hypna]

I'm thinking about splitting the set with a PanO friend of mine, but none of those supposed units really fit my lists. Bakunin rules out the Spektr and the Alguaciles. I don't typically run Moiras in the current rules because they both don't seem worth the points and don't really fit my sneaky/hacky style. The other dude? We'll have to wait and see.

[Zac]

Because it takes a lot of highly specialized terrain. Rooms and corridors, which are very expensive, as well as rarely seen on the shelves at FLGSs and clubs.

The solution is interior playmats. Add some scatter terrain - desks, chairs, boxes, beds, etc - and you're golden. They could easily be way cheaper than corridors. Heck, if I had the artist chops and any interest in going into business, I'd try to sell these myself.

I suspect that given the cover art we've seen that this is the case. Some sort of building internal playmate with some terrain to break the rooms up

[ElectricPaladin]

The other dude? We'll have to wait and see.

I think it's been confirmed that he's from Tunguska.

[Todd]

Why should all Infinity games take place on city blooks with tons of jersey barriers and parked cars or extremely cluttered woodland? Why is no one playing boarding actions on space ships and space stations, kidnapping important corporate figures from office buildings, infiltrating military bases for information, or assassination government officials in their mansions?

Because it takes a lot of highly specialized terrain. Rooms and corridors, which are very expensive, as well as rarely seen on the shelves at FLGSs and clubs.

The solution is interior playmats. Add some scatter terrain - desks, chairs, boxes, beds, etc - and you're golden. They could easily be way cheaper than corridors. Heck, if I had the artist chops and any interest in going into business, I'd try to sell these myself.

I think it can be attributed to game balance more than anything. For better or worse, the game is designed for the type of terrain we typically see. Not saying a boarding action table isn't fun to play on every once in awhile, only that it's hard to justify building/buying a table's worth of stuff that so radically changes the game. Infinity takes a lot of terrain, that means most people don't want to fool around with something that they can't get a lot of mileage out of.

[ElectricPaladin]

For better or worse, the game is designed for the type of terrain we typically see...

Says who? Have you ever tried it?

I don't see anything in the rules that would hurt boarding actions, as long as you used the actual rules. Doors that need to be hacked open. Consoles that you can take control of in order to mess with the life support in other rooms. Zero-G areas. Asymmetrical scenarios and limitations on what you can take (and how they deploy) based on who is the defender and who is the attacker. The same can be true of any interior.

Perhaps this is a conversation for another thread, but I strongly reject the idea that there is anything about Infinity that renders it unsuited to interior corridor terrain. It's just that nobody plays it that way because none of us have got right stuff.

[Guges]

I have a Paradiso table...
Multiple urban tables...
Working on a Svarlaheima table...

Ship interiors is the holy grail because it's either a lot of work or too expensive... perfect for Infinity games though...

[IJW Wartrader]

Boarding action tables work exceptionally well in Infinity, but players do need to know about it in advance.

[ElectricPaladin]

Boarding action tables work exceptionally well in Infinity, but players do need to know about it in advance.

Certainly. It's a variant game, if for no other reason than some skills wouldn't be useful at all.

[Todd]

For better or worse, the game is designed for the type of terrain we typically see...

Says who? Have you ever tried it?

I don't see anything in the rules that would hurt boarding actions, as long as you used the actual rules. Doors that need to be hacked open. Consoles that you can take control of in order to mess with the life support in other rooms. Zero-G areas. Asymmetrical scenarios and limitations on what you can take (and how they deploy) based on who is the defender and who is the attacker. The same can be true of any interior.

Perhaps this is a conversation for another thread, but I strongly reject the idea that there is anything about Infinity that renders it unsuited to interior corridor terrain. It's just that nobody plays it that way because none of us have got right stuff.

Yeah, I have tried. It's fun, especially for a narrative mission like you're suggesting. It's definitely not balanced for competitive play though. I certainly wouldn't play most of the ITS scenarios on a table like that and expect it be a satisfying experience for both players. On the other hand, other terrain types are simply going to be more versatile.

For what it's worth, I have the right stuff (I actually think it's easier to make decent looking corridor terrain than most other types), but choose to only use it for the kind of one-off home brew games you described above.

Players have to make/buy a lot of terrain for Infinity regardless. If interior/boarding action terrain yielded the play experience you're suggesting, I think they would have caught on to that by now, and it would be reflected in their collections. Then again, I don't necessarily think you need to try it to knock it, when you can compare the profile for a 5point chain rifle dude to that of a 30something point sniper, and come to certain logical conclusions.

[Machinist]

I've tried it on some event. Unfortunately I played PanOceania and the opponent was playing Nomads, it's off the chart how much board control you can get with them and I'd guess it would be true for any other WB/SK composition.

On my part I'd take the "dull" concrete and parked cars table over more "interesting" closed encounter.

[Darnok]

Boarding action terrain is difficult? I have three editions of Space Hulk floors saying "nu-oo" to that.

[IJW Wartrader]

A couple of Regulars with Mines and Sensor do a surprising amount to balance that board control.

[Machinist]

I hope you're not serious as it's not going to be enough, I had those along with auxilia, TR and quite a few BS. When your opponent covers mid and rear objectives with zeroes and controls vital paths with Moran or Lunokhod and its crazy koalas that will jump on you as soon as you open the door, your options are simply limited.

Further there is chimera and Morlocks that can move free through corridors most of the time, unless you managed to put suppressive fire, but that's a big if, as you're going to be really dependant on board layout and any sort of rule you might apply to the board, smoke grenades are also worth their weight on such layout.

You need board denial and mobility, leap frogging your way is not going to cut it with three turns and scenarios that require specific activation of objectives. I think it would be a hard challenge in ITS too.

[IJW Wartrader]

Sorry, your earlier post didn't make it clear that this was using ITS missions. At a minimum, they need an extra turn added for boarding action tables and even then it's better to stick to Annihilation, Frontline or Quadrant Control.

As a minor aside, because CrazyKoalas can't be held back and don't impose a Dodge penalty they're pretty easy to clear out by sending up a sacrificial line infantry or Auxbot.

[Errhile]

Do we have any confirmation on wheter the miniatures will be resculpts?

Algulaciles, Mobile Brigada and Spektr - we've seen the old ones, and it is high time for new ones.
Fusiliers, Nisse, ORC Troop, Akalis Sikh and perhaps MO Father Officer (unspecified order) have old sculpts already too.

I'd guess these will be new sculpts, but that's it - just a guess.

[IJW Wartrader]

Via Facebook (and the Icestorm cover which shows new design elements), they're all resculpts.

[Koni]

All new scultps

[Errhile]

Excellent, I'll let the guys know.

I assume the Reverend Healer and Father Officer will be new units, too (in addition to Grenzer).

...by chance, any tips on when new Brigada are to be expected? I own both of the old ones, but i'd like to have the option of fielding a whole Pain Train of Brigada without hunting down the MultiRifle one who is only available in the old starter pack... so a box of them would be appreciated

[tinfish]

Boarding action tables work exceptionally well in Infinity, but players do need to know about it in advance.

Certainly. It's a variant game, if for no other reason than some skills wouldn't be useful at all.

To me they don't need to know, it is part of the fun (for me)
You draw up your list, your expecting to hit a mansion and recover an enemy operative (you drew up your list expecting a city fight) enroute your transport was engaged by the enemy, the Captain calls you into action! (your fighthing a mission you weren't expecting to fight).

You prep for an extraction in a town, your intent being to rescue several civilian hostages, your expecting a close quarters affair and arm accordingly (you expect to play in a city full of terrain) you end up fighting in a field because your transport was ambushed (the boards not what you expected)

Plenty of fluffy reasons for these things to happen, and the lesson learned would be that tailoring isn't the only way to build a list, make one balanced, one that can face all commers, might not be the ultra list for scenario A, but when you end up unexpectedly fighting Scenario G, it will have a good chance.

Table + dice has always been my preference over Calculator and paper

Each to their own of course, I'm just saying there are other ways to play, I'd be quite happy to fight any sort of scenario with whatever I happened to turn up with.

[dlfleetw]

I am curious how the terrain is going to be handled by the starter box and I also wonder if terrain denisty, type and use is going change some with N3.

I honestly hope it does, allowing for more natural looking boards/somethinf other than volumetric building and angle stacking.

Addressing terrain as part of of the rules (at least defining more things) and having an entire section discussing terrain density and layout should help normalize all the various meta terrain density and opinions on what does what.

[Machinist]

As a minor aside, because CrazyKoalas can't be held back and don't impose a Dodge penalty they're pretty easy to clear out by sending up a sacrificial line infantry or Auxbot.

It's a loss for PanO player either way. I sacrificed orders and infantry or an AoE weapon that I don't get to have in such huge abundance as others. In this particular case I'd like to conserve my Auxbot and trade it for something noteworthy or use it to get two WIP rolls for trying to complete the objective. I'd rather had sacrificed something like Palbot attached to a Machinist, given the chance.

[IJW Wartrader]

I think we're talking at cross-purposes. CKs are very irritating, but they're also very easy to get rid of - far easier than Mines. In the case of the Auxbot it's usually not that hard to move it 6" into the CK's range and flame someone (often the CK's owner) with the same Order.

Harder in a boarding action, obviously.

[Claudius Sol]

If the board is set up right, Boarding Action (using tiles) games can be really great.

Few things to keep in mind:
-Always have multiple methods of access. Don't make it easy to turtle.
-Have open rooms and cramped hallways. Never just one or the other.
-Leave deployment varied. With such limited access to potential deployment positions (let alone viable ones), be a little loose with deployment rules.

From my (somewhat limited) experience in trying tile-based Infinity, these are things that make the boarding action fun.

[Alf O'Mega]

The battlesystems kickstarter is going to be great for this when it hits in a month or so. Multi-level, everything from cramped corridors, to infinitely high spacecraft docking bays, you'll even be able to represent a bunker in the middle of a field for the best of both worlds - it will be ace!!!

[ElectricPaladin]

Overall, I think it's important to note that boarding actions are not unbalanced because they make cheap models (or models with cheap kit) more valuable, because they have that effect on both sides. So what if your opponent can bring a ton of cheap chain rifles? I'm pretty sure that every faction either has the equivalent, or has some other model that can benefit from the situation. For example, what are those PanO guys with the pet flamethrower robots called? They may already be expensive, but they get that much better in a boarding action environment.

Anyway, we're dragging this thread way off topic. I'll go start a new thread on how to do boarding actions and other interior scenariors in Infinity.

[Machinist]

Twin Regulars and Auxilia simply aren't adequate to hold up to the pressure, certain armies, namely Nomads can bring on table on such layout. It's frustrating to trade my limited models for his, he has redundancy and can afford to. I cannot, unless he's being very gracious and lines most of them for my template.

There is a question of why would Nomad even want to trade, once you control the table it's up to the opponent to break the containment. In my game the Nomad player has used this time to simply capture the objectives, it's frustrating to know that you will start your first turn, not only with the difficult task of dismantling a specific flank (mines, suicidal speed bumps, crazy koalas) but also racing against his VP lead.

I'm sure Nomad players would love to play on such layout, I however will simply decline. I tend to give people or a scenario more than a single chance, however this experience is something I have no intention of repeating in hopes for a better result.

[smotku]

I also play Pano and I am curious as to the set up. I have much experience against nomads and while they can certainly put models everywhere I can some of the same thing with crocs and order sgts. dealing with Morans and all the other Crazy Koala toters is tricky but not insurmountable. I agree trading auxilias is not a great tactic. I probably would bring a magister vs crazy koalas and since I almost always have a -6 bts hacker on hand to deal with repeaters. I can see how it may be an issue and I am not saying its alevel playing field but also you might want to bring your minesweeper as well.

[Darnok]

I assume we'll see a whole line of follow-up releases to the new O:I sculpts? At least boxes of MB, ORCs, Fuseliers, Alguaciles, and single blisters of Grenzers (propably new weapon loadouts) should be a given, no? That's almost two months of releases right there...

[Yasbir]

From e-minis description, two details I think we didn´t know: Itcomes with a 64 pages manual ( 32 in english ,32 in spanish) with 5 tutorial missions , profiles and quick start rules, and cardboard scenery ,4 buildings and 6 containers .

[Redwulfe]

4 buildings and 6 containers? That's not that bad at all. With two sets you could have a quick and easy table set up. Hope this cardboard is good stock.

I would really like to see this pack also sold separately as a quick cheap alternative for easy terrain.

Red