el_presidente's base

[el_presidente]

Hello folks,

I finally took the plunge and not only bought, but also assembled and painted some terrain! I'm using the same table I use for Warmachine/Hordes , so I went for a "outpost" theme instead of the most common urban one. The buildings are from Systema Gaming.

Given that I'm a very new player I'd appreciate some feedback in regards to the setup, and some "what to get next" advice.


View from above:


Close-up:

[Claudius Sol]

Where are you situated? Shipping costs can get prohibitive depending on which side of the pond you're on.

If you're in the US, I'd seriously recommend Warsen.al, Underground Lasers, and Shark Mounted Lasers.

All great producers with products varying for your price point and desired aesthetic. Warsen.al's "Comanche" line might fit your theme the best.

If you're in the UK, Warmill and Sarissa Precision are great choices (beyond Systema). Sarissa Precision might fit your aesthetic better, but Warmill's isn't out of the question, either. Pick one that fits you best.

I hope that was helpful, somewhat.

[Errhile]

In my opinion - you need some extra terrain, most likely scatter terrain / LoS breakers.

The outpost you already have is nice, but I think there's too much open terrain along the sides, and especially in the corners. You could already help that by placing the buildings with bigger spaces between them. The center is rather dense, too dense for my taste.

But from there, it depends on what would you like. A handful more containers, some vehicles, industrial equipment, some fences (animal pens with toy animals inside)?

[jherazob]

On setting up the table, here's a blog post on it with some helpful guidelines. I also agree that the sides are too open, a couple of paratroopers would massacre everybody in the table in the first turn and some scatter will be needed.

Apart from that i like it, it's perfect for some low-tech outpost. Maybe some assorted industrial scatter like drums, containers and the like can help, maybe even equipment like vehicles or power loaders too. This antenna is not too hard to build, and if printed in heavy card, blacklined with a sharpie to hide the white borders and probably weighted with a couple of washers or cents should be perfect. And scour your dollar stores or equivalent for cheap toys in the right scale, if not for this board for future ones.

[Harlekin]

That's a great start.
As others already said, some more terrain would be great to have.
Another two or three of those buildings should be enough.

[Mob of Blondes]

blacklined with a sharpie to hide the white borders

So from obvious white to obvious black. Maybe if painted with matching colors (grey and "brown", mostly) the effort is worth.

[red harvest]

With papercraft, the issue is one of contrast rather than color matching-- black edges are better than white. Nonetheless, Sharpies come in many colors, as do a variety of permanent markers. A full set of them is very convenient for papercraft, as I am learning.

Nice find Jherazob. Looks like a useful bit for ITS Objective Markers too.

el_Presidente, play a small game on your table as is. That experience will give you valuable insight into what else you will want to add to it. And you can proxy terrain-- use small boxes, packaging and whatnot-- to see what sizes and shapes you want for the future. Ah yes, here is what I mean http://i.imgur.com/7ZOmBSq.jpg.

It is a nice start on a table, and I'll say not every table can or should be "Urban".

[Section9]

My quick rule of thumb for a table (which may prove a bit terrain-dense) is to shine a laser pointer from one side of the table to the other. Check all the way down two adjacent sides at a minimum, all 4 sides is better. If you can actually see that laser pointer on the far side of the table, you need more terrain in that spot. Your LONGEST line of sight should be about 36" on a 4x4 table.

[edit: You can usually find a cheap and safe laser pointer at the pet store as a 'cat toy' for a dollar or two.]

At a glance, you will need some more terrain around the outside edges of your table. Some extra forest pieces or some small, steep hills would work.

[Scorch]

Ah, Base-0! a great line of terrain! Already had much fun with it, and I own a couple of it myself now! Table looks like a good start, but like other said; get some more on the sides.
I'd advice on more boxes/containers, as it fits the table thematically. Base-0 has a nice industrial looking style, so containers might work great.

Where are you located? if you're in the EU Terrakami and Systema Gaming are both great places to get some affordable terrain.

[bugbait_nz]

GREAT start!! more shrubbery would fill on the gaps nicely.

[jherazob]

With papercraft, the issue is one of contrast rather than color matching-- black edges are better than white. Nonetheless, Sharpies come in many colors, as do a variety of permanent markers. A full set of them is very convenient for papercraft, as I am learning.

Completely agree, i'd say do a test piece in normal office paper just to experiment with, and see what looks better not just with the model but with the rest of the board.

Nice find Jherazob. Looks like a useful bit for ITS Objective Markers too.

Some of his other stuff may be useful too, the dumpsters fit in nearly any board and the pipes are nice looking (although i'm lazy and i'd use PVC pipes instead ). Later i'll post a link to a huge directory of tabletop papercraft on the Terrain Link Thread, i found this there.

el_Presidente, play a small game on your table as is. That experience will give you valuable insight into what else you will want to add to it. And you can proxy terrain-- use small boxes, packaging and whatnot-- to see what sizes and shapes you want for the future. Ah yes, here is what I mean http://i.imgur.com/7ZOmBSq.jpg

Or the pic i always use to show that you don't need to spend an arm and a leg if you wanna play:

[el_presidente]

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions!

I've only played two 150pt games so far, and it worked fine. We're so new that we are still getting over the fact that you can go inside buldings ! We didn't have any troops coming on the sides, but I'll make sure to remember that it is a possibility.

As for my location, I'm indeed in the old continent so warsenal is out the question even though the comanche range looks sweet. But I did manage to get a hold of some of their shipping containers from their free shipping sale. I'll post some pictures again when I assemble those and some odd base-0 boxes that I still have, too see if it helps break some LOS.

[jherazob]

The Antenociti people are in the middle of a Kickstarter, their terrain is not the cheapest but it's quite nice and (at least the KS stuff) comes prepainted.. Maybe you'd want to check that out. Also there's others i can't recall right now here in Europe.

[Errhile]

Micro Arts, ZenTerrain, those guys from Latvia, Customeeple, Laughing Jack, PlasCraft and so on.
The list is long.

As for LoS-breaking boxes, I'd consider some cardboard containers (download for free -> print -> cut -> glue -> ready for table) from Atenociti's downloads section, or from the Corvyus Belli train setup (designed by Topo Solitario). Cost to effectiveness, they beat all those fancy MDF lasercut containers. The downside is that cardboard printouts tend to be not playable on the inisde, but then again - with shipping containers you rarely want that option.

[el_presidente]

So the table has evolved a little bit:



I've got a couple more buildings coming up and some paper containers, I must say that I do love the Warsenal ones, you can organize them in so many different ways and even hide inside!

The next step is to add some texture to the buildings and maybe some graffiti!

[Scorch]

For graffiti: take a look at Customeeple's templates! Awesome product and easy to use!

[el_presidente]

Time for updates.

So a friend of mine made some paper stencils for graffiti, numbers and factions symbols and here's the result! We've also started to add some small details and make the buildings a bit dirty.

The buldings:







The crates:





And a little action shot for yesterday's game as a bonus:

Brigada vs Domaru!

[Section9]

Love the Gunslinger Girl graffiti!

[Claudius Sol]

How'd you make the stencils? I definitely need something to up my terrain game and stencils would go a long way.

[el_presidente]

Like I said, it was a friend who made them. But what he did was to print out images on a normal piece of paper, and then cut out the part you need with an x-acto knife. Then we just used brushes with thick paint and just stippled over the paper and got that result.

For the faction logos he made 2 or 3 stencils, for example for the nomad logo he had one that has a lower semicircle, another one that was the upper part and the third for the white thing in the middle.

I hope that helps, maybe I'll get some WIP pics next time.

[Claudius Sol]

Gotcha! Just normal printer paper, huh? I wish my hand was steady enough to cut out such precise shapes. Thanks! Helps a lot, actually!

[Section9]

Gotcha! Just normal printer paper, huh? I wish my hand was steady enough to cut out such precise shapes. Thanks! Helps a lot, actually!

brand-new xacto blade usually works wonders. My hands shake something horrible, and I can cut stencils easily with a new blade. Blade tips get dull quickly, so you need to change blades as soon as you see that first rough cut.

[Mob of Blondes]

Can you write? I mean, with so many keyboards and now even "smudge" interfaces... I even heard propositions to drop (complex) writing skills in schools.

Maybe you should consider a swivel blade. And rulers when aplicable. Circles can be done with a special cutter too. Or there is a print shop near with some kind of cutting plotter, so you can go full-lazy.

It's always amazing when a super star is asked how he gets this or that, then shows it uses the simplest and most cheating tool possible. If he is surprised, even funnier. "Straight lines in my drawings? I use a ruler, why?"

Sorry if I sound smug, but in the official I just saw someone praising the gloss of a model, saying it was a very tricky thing to do... a la NMM... then found a picture in which it becomes clear the surface is just glossy, no NGG going on (and so it works always). Pick the right tool and method, unless you are trying to do a "because I can" stunt.

[Claudius Sol]

Hahaha, I see I see. I actually hadn't considered a swiveling exacto knife. Wasn't aware such a thing existed. I have no problem making straight cuts. I do so often, in fact. Metal ruler and such. It's curved cuts that give me fits.

[Section9]

Hahaha, I see I see. I actually hadn't considered a swiveling exacto knife. Wasn't aware such a thing existed. I have no problem making straight cuts. I do so often, in fact. Metal ruler and such. It's curved cuts that give me fits.

Check leatherworking places.

[Mob of Blondes]

Or scrapbooking, handcrafts. You can find some that look like a pencil (X-Acto, ProEdge, Excel...), other like a twisted pencil or hockey stick (hard to explain, but it keeps the tip straight while the main part is angled in your hand) or like a ring (similar to leather ones, but wrapping more around the finger, one brand is Fiskars). Leather ones seem to be a bit heavier than ones for paper.

Edit: Pics.

Stencil cutter...

[red harvest]

Aye but there is a learning curve with those swivel blades... And one for those stencil blades too. I hate the really thin handles. ( have a few issues of my own with the hands ) I have both, but I always seem to return the the ol' #11 blade.

Then again, there is a learning curve to making curved cuts too...

Do you know the "trick" about hammering nails? You aim for the point where the nail enters to wood rather than at the head of the nail and make sure the head of the nail is in the path of your swing. That is to say aim for where you want the nail to go, not where it is? If that makes sense.

Similar thing with cutting curves. Pull the blade where you want it to go, or how you want it to go-- along the curve, rather than try to cut at the point where the blade is. Not sure if I can articulate it better. Barring that, get some Aluminum French Curves or a tailor's curve (also called an irregular curve or design curve or variable curve) to use as a guide. Here is one I have a nice 30-60-90 triangle from this company. Now that I think about it, I might order one of these for myself...

Best thing is practice, a lot, on thin paper (22# stuff).

The stencilling really adds a nice touch to the buildings.

[el_presidente]

Here's what the stencils look like:



And a few words from the guy that made them:

"To make stencils is really easy. You need a few tools and some patience. Here goes:
Find nice image of stencil online (or make one yourself - it is not as difficult as it looks :-))
Copy image and resize it to fit scale of models... I use Microsoft Word... Print onto normal printing paper.
Cover image with clear see-through tape. I use 3M scotch tape, but most types will do. Make sure it has good contact with paper. I use the round end of a brush or similar to "rub it into" the paper.
Cut out the image using a Sharp craft knife, scalpel or similar (see foto for example). Use a cutting mat underneath, otherwise your knife will soon be dull. For small details I would recommend a knife with a rotary blade. A word of advise - start by cutting the small/difficult/important parts of the image. This way there is more paper to suppert that work, and should it be ruined (yes - that happens) it is the first thing to go. Some damage can be repaired by simply putting a new piece of tape on and cutting Again.
Now the stencil is ready. Hold it firmly onto the surface (wall of house?) and paint using a short haired brush. Paint in a stabbing motion and becareful not to use too much paint. Work fast and remove stencil as soon as you are done. Voila!"

[jherazob]

Here's what the stencils look like:

You posted an image from your email, only you can see it

And a few words from the guy that made them:
"To make stencils is really easy. You need a few tools and some patience. Here goes:
Find nice image of stencil online (or make one yourself - it is not as difficult as it looks :-))
Copy image and resize it to fit scale of models... I use Microsoft Word... Print onto normal printing paper.
Cover image with clear see-through tape. I use 3M scotch tape, but most types will do. Make sure it has good contact with paper. I use the round end of a brush or similar to "rub it into" the paper.
Cut out the image using a Sharp craft knife, scalpel or similar (see foto for example). Use a cutting mat underneath, otherwise your knife will soon be dull. For small details I would recommend a knife with a rotary blade. A word of advise - start by cutting the small/difficult/important parts of the image. This way there is more paper to suppert that work, and should it be ruined (yes - that happens) it is the first thing to go. Some damage can be repaired by simply putting a new piece of tape on and cutting Again.
Now the stencil is ready. Hold it firmly onto the surface (wall of house?) and paint using a short haired brush. Paint in a stabbing motion and becareful not to use too much paint. Work fast and remove stencil as soon as you are done. Voila!"

I just needed a stencil for something i'm doing, how timely, thanks for the tips

[el_presidente]

hehe ooops?

Shoud be ok now