Operation Icestorm

[Guarda de Assalto]

I'll sorta miss guys failing their climb rolls and breaking their necks... But I guess we can still count on the occasional dude failing his guts roll and accidentally backing off a ledge to his doom?

[Claudius Sol]

Sound legitimate. You have to seek total cover with failed guts. If that means you have to jump off a building, so be it. It's certainly more cover than going prone, most of the time.

[Todd]

Unless they changed it (likely), guts movement can be a climb too (not sure why you would jump). Though I bet they're both long skills now, so maybe not something you can even use with guts. Also, if the model wasn't already right next to the ledge it would just go prone, because it would take two different skills to move towards it and climb/jump down.

[Guarda de Assalto]

We are talking about a corner case where a model is on a roof/ ledge with no parapet (hence no jump skill, you could just walk off) and is receiving fire from a model that would still see him if he goes prone. Unless you can't just "walk"off a ledge and it has to be a jump?

I've only seen it happen once, and maybe it as played wrong but damn if it wasn't funny!

[IJW Wartrader]

I'll sorta miss guys failing their climb rolls and breaking their necks...

Icestorm has some rules for ladders. We still have no information about what changes there are to the actual Climb skill.

[macfergusson]

I'll sorta miss guys failing their climb rolls and breaking their necks...

Icestorm has some rules for ladders. We still have no information about what changes there are to the actual Climb skill.

Other than quoting Carlos in the Beast of War video that was posted today, you mean?

[Willowran]

I'll sorta miss guys failing their climb rolls and breaking their necks...

Icestorm has some rules for ladders. We still have no information about what changes there are to the actual Climb skill.

Other than quoting Carlos in the Beast of War video that was posted today, you mean?

Apparently the "climbing" unit was climbing a ladder

[IJW Wartrader]

I'm travelling back from the Interplanetary, I've not had time to watch any of the videos yet.

[macfergusson]

Just to reiterate, in the video Carlos revealed that Climb in N3 is changing to be a long skill, no roll required, you move your full first MOV value. So your average troop will be able to Climb up 4" by simply spending a Long Skill/One Order. The actual movement in the demo game happened on a printed ladder/stair area, which is simply treated as normal movement (hopefully this is official now?).

There may be other additional information to Climb that was not revealed in that quick aside on the video.

[Todd]

We are talking about a corner case where a model is on a roof/ ledge with no parapet (hence no jump skill, you could just walk off) and is receiving fire from a model that would still see him if he goes prone. Unless you can't just "walk"off a ledge and it has to be a jump?

I've only seen it happen once, and maybe it as played wrong but damn if it wasn't funny!

Yeah, I don't think you can just walk off of something and fall, that seems to be something players have added to the game themselves. The rules we have for falling are specific to climbing/jumping. Guts gives you one short movement skill to achieve better cover, so that means jumping/climbing down if you're already at the edge, or going prone if you're not (assuming that walking towards the edge wouldn't take you out of LoF somehow). This is definitely less fun though.

[Todd]

Climbing into view of enemy models is going to be rough now. Then again, that's assuming we were even allowed to climb/shoot in the first place (not sure if that was ever intentional as the skills are technically simultaneous).

[macfergusson]

Climbing into view of enemy models is going to be rough now. Then again, that's assuming we were even allowed to climb/shoot in the first place (not sure if that was ever intentional as the skills are technically simultaneous).

By my understanding, previously it was always Jump or Climb, then shoot from where the movement starts or ends. Super Jump or Climbing Plus allowed shots to be fired during the skill as well (mid-air or mid-climb).

With Climb being a long skill now, Climbing Plus is probably the only way to F2F any AROs while Climbing.

If the new rule about ladders and stairs is official, it sounds like it is making those spots effectively equivalent to Climbing Plus. Makes sense to me, that is how we were already house-ruling it in our local group.

[ElectricPaladin]

Can anyone spoil the grenzer's profile?

[IJW Wartrader]

I'd prefer not to, given that the new units are pretty well guaranteed to be get their own video or sections of a video on BoW later this week.

[macfergusson]

Can anyone spoil the grenzer's profile?

Ride out the week, we'll keep getting new information!

[Mistake Not]

Just wait, let the hype and excitement play itself out.

Others will wait for BoW to do their thing, then summarise effectively; no need to even watch BoW's crap..
They're fine when writing or just giving out bits of information but if they sit down to 'have a talk'.. so much natter.

[MARC C]

Deployment seems to be simplified ? If you win the WIP roll you get to deploy first and go first?

DODGE :
Its 5cm = 2" + kinematics (new skill). EVERYONE DODGEs by 2" instead of the first half of their move value. Kinematics Level 1 = dodge 3", Level 2 = 4", level 3 = 5". Carlos says : Models with high CC will have kinematics so they can «dodge» into close combat easier.

CLIMB:
Is now a Long Order. No rolls required. The unit climb automatically the first half of move value.
(ladders do not require climb rolls.)

MEASURING :
Is now edge to edge. Making the effective range of weapons better since the distance will be shorter by more or less 1".

GUTS movement :
Must be FULL available value, not just enough to achieve better cover.

[macfergusson]

Deployment seems to be simplified ? If you win the WIP roll you get to deploy first and go first?

I got the impression that was for the sake of the simple game, not necessarily a rule change. You'll note nowhere was it determined who is on which side.

[MARC C]

Deployment seems to be simplified ? If you win the WIP roll you get to deploy first and go first?

I got the impression that was for the sake of the simple game, not necessarily a rule change. You'll note nowhere was it determined who is on which side.

That makes sens. We will see tomorrow or in the following days.

[solkan]

Climbing into view of enemy models is going to be rough now. Then again, that's assuming we were even allowed to climb/shoot in the first place (not sure if that was ever intentional as the skills are technically simultaneous).

By my understanding, previously it was always Jump or Climb, then shoot from where the movement starts or ends. Super Jump or Climbing Plus allowed shots to be fired during the skill as well (mid-air or mid-climb).

With Climb being a long skill now, Climbing Plus is probably the only way to F2F any AROs while Climbing.

If the new rule about ladders and stairs is official, it sounds like it is making those spots effectively equivalent to Climbing Plus. Makes sense to me, that is how we were already house-ruling it in our local group.

Climb without a ladder present is a long skill. This is the spoiler--no more death by climbing.

Climbing on a ladder was just normal movement. Even if it's not the official N3 rule, having that rule in the quick start rules is going to make it a very common house rule.

Notice in the demo video today both players used a move-move or move-dodge to go up the buildings.

[Barakiel]

Honestly, while the box is absolutely fantastic and a very well put together it isn't the font of info on N3 that I was hoping for. Which isn't surprising, I guess. I'd very much recommend it though. The models are beautiful and the terrain and components are well put together. It's especially great for new players. A really nice way to learn the game. However, experienced players won't get much out of the quick start rules and included missions (other than some fun fluff and art).

Indeed, this point should be reiterated. Looking at my copy, it's very clear that we can glean some upcoming changes from the Quick Start rules, but it's hardly comprehensive. There's some information about changes in range bands, plus different or updated statlines, and indicators of at least two new rules (Kinematika, which we know, and Assault, which we don't know and is almost certainly melee oriented.) For the most part though, we can assume a lot of information as has been dumbed down or abridged for the sake of Quick Start simplification, and we'll need official releases or teasers to provide us with more info.

Regarding the climbing change... I love it. It does a great job of making the 3rd dimension of Infinity more accessible, allowing any unit to reach any surface given enough time and relative safety without having to worry about breaking his neck. Similarly, if you deploy a unit on top of a building, you don't have to be worried about him being "stranded" up there for the rest of the game because you're worried he'll fall to his death. However, you still have to cover your troops since they're vulnerable while climbing, while troops with Climbing Plus will still have a fantastic, dynamic rule edge over their less agile counterparts.

[ToadChild]

Is "Assault" is a rule that the Father-Knight has? Furthermore, is it in place of any existing known CC rules (Martial Arts, Berserk, etc)?

[macfergusson]

Climb without a ladder present is a long skill. This is the spoiler--no more death by climbing.

Climbing on a ladder was just normal movement. Even if it's not the official N3 rule, having that rule in the quick start rules is going to make it a very common house rule.

Notice in the demo video today both players used a move-move or move-dodge to go up the buildings.

Right, is that not what I was saying?

[Barakiel]

Is "Assault" is a rule that the Father-Knight has? Furthermore, is it in place of any existing known CC rules (Martial Arts, Berserk, etc)?

I'm going to emulate other users and let CB set the pace for releasing the new stat lines, but your assumptions for your question are all factually correct. In particular, there are some interesting things happening with the CC stat that we haven't seen on any profile before.

[chaos11]

...while troops with Climbing Plus will still have a fantastic, dynamic rule edge over their less agile counterparts.

What does climbing plus do over normal climbing? I thought climbing plus was just you didn't have to roll and counted it as your normal move, which it sounds like everyone does now.

[Claudius Sol]

...while troops with Climbing Plus will still have a fantastic, dynamic rule edge over their less agile counterparts.

What does climbing plus do over normal climbing? I thought climbing plus was just you didn't have to roll and counted it as your normal move, which it sounds like everyone does now.

You can also shoot while climbing. You don't need to break your movement into two separate skills (move and climb), you simply treat walls and other vertical surfaces as extensions of the ground. Climbing plus is one of the best movement skills to have.

[Harlekin]

What does climbing plus do over normal climbing? I thought climbing plus was just you didn't have to roll and counted it as your normal move, which it sounds like everyone does now.

There's a difference between normal move and climbing your first move value with a long skill.

[macfergusson]

...while troops with Climbing Plus will still have a fantastic, dynamic rule edge over their less agile counterparts.

What does climbing plus do over normal climbing? I thought climbing plus was just you didn't have to roll and counted it as your normal move, which it sounds like everyone does now.

Prediction is looking like climbing plus will allow your short skill to be full MOV (say 4") then another short skill left that you can shoot with or climb further in the same order, for example. New Climbing rule without Climbing Plus would be a long skill to move 4" and that's it.

[Barakiel]

Answered by others regarding Climbing Plus! This is all still speculation of course, since we haven't actually heard yet what Climbing+ will do. Assuming it remains similar to how it is now though, everyone's previous posts have been correct.

[ElectricPaladin]

If this is how it works, tomcats stock just went way up.