Alternate Games

[Hero of Man]

I was wondering what other minis games everyone plays or is interested in playing.

My Alternates

Bolt Action. I have not played a game yet, but I love the ruleset very much, and I've always wanted a WWII game. I plan on proxying with Wargames Factory(ordering soon), though not just because the price; the sculpts for Bolt Action in my opinion are Terrible. My wife is very much interested in the rules mechanics as well, but more so in the fact that I said I'd paint everything.

Warmachine. I mean this in the sense that I own a Cygnar army and a Highborn Covenant Army from a while back, but I'm not a fan of Privateer Press' business practices as of late. I'm not nearly as against PP as GW, but they've rubbed me the wrong way. Still, I play the occasional game with my friend when he comes to visit, and my wife when she feels like dusting off her Menoth army. I still wish more games used the unit stat cards though; this saves so much time.


My Interests

Malifaux. Sort of. I really, REALLY like some of the new sculpts. On the other hand, I also hate A LOT of the aesthetics for some factions, and am very weary of playing with cards. This is simply because I can't shuffle for shit.

Anima. Great sculpts, sounds really neat. However, from what I hear the rules are a bit convoluted.

[VisOne]

I actually dropped all other systems to play Infinity and Infinity alone since I have a 2 year old and literally my 2nd child due today! The way I figured it is if I can only get 'some' hobby time in the next few years better keep it to one system.

Although Bolt Action was soooooo close to winning over Infinity when I made that decision; thankfully Infinity was already being played often and well at my local club where Bolt Action was not.

[chromedog]

I play WHFB at club level for something to do when I'm not playing infinity.
But I'm currently painting up a Firestorm armada fleet for that game - because I'm tiring of the dragons and the orcs and goblins and shite.

I'm an SF gamer at heart. My first rpg was R.Talsorian's Cyberpunk (2013), my first miniatures game was Battletech. I've played most of the SF miniature games over the last 25 years (BT was my ONLY 6mm foray, though - and never with infantry) from 40k to void, Urban War, Stargrunt, Warzone and Tomorrow's War, even kryomek.

They tried to recruit me for Distopian wars, but it's too steampunk for me. I don't dig on steampunk.

[Arachas]

I love switching between games: it keeps things fresh (though it restricts my skill level for each of the games I play, but hey, I play purely for fun).

I started 15 years ago with WHFB, then added in 40k and soon we were doing stints of Mordheim and Necromunda. One of my gaming friends is a huge BattleTech fan (and it's one of my favorite universes as well, though I don't like the game as much) so we'd mix that up with BattleTech games - these days it's evolved from "classic" BT to Quick Strike, which is much quicker (ha!) and actually more fun as you get to play with more 'Mechs on the table.

The GW well has since dried up and we've moved on. I used to play a lot of Death Squads (fan made 40k skirmish). It's based on GW rules, though, so when I came across Infinity I was dumb struck by the sheer flexibility and tactical depth of the latter. When it turned out my friends (couple of them had never touched a wargame before) were interested, we took the jump. I have to say my longest gaming stretch ever involved Infinity: several months with 2-4 games per month. Unheard of in my circles!

Recently it's been a little slower (which is fine). I've been looking at the Batman Miniature Game (http://www.knightmodels.com). It's written by a veteran Infinity player, but it's supposed to be more cinematic and less hardcore tactical. Sounds like a perfect alternative.

Finally, I too have been looking at WW2 action: one of my best mates is totally into wargaming, just not of the science fiction kind. He's got a ton of Corgi 1/56 tanks, which we mean to put into action. Bolt Action looks good, but I hear Chain of Command has more tactical depth. Then there's Flames of War, which I hear is very convoluted when it comes to the ruleset. 15mm does kind of appeal to me, I wouldn't mind playing an entire company!

So I expect to soon be playing 3 separate game systems at the same time. Fun, fun! And then there's the occasional BT game, board games (Battlestar Galactica!) and not mention video games...

Oh, and I'm doing all that with 2 young kids and my own business. Rise up, men, we can do it!

[Hero of Man]

I've got three kids myself(almost 4, almost 3, almost 1). My wife and I get maybe an Infinity game a month, and Warmachine stays in its army carrier till I feel like painting it all.

Vis: That makes sense, but I need something to paint when I need a break from my Infinity painting.

Chrome: Did you try Eclipse Phase? I was interested, but it looked too rules heavy. And yeah... Just glue some gears on it and call it steampunk.

Arachas: Batman looks Radical, not sure If I want to upscale though. More Tactical Depth is actually a negative to me, as I'm really tired of learning difficult rulesets. Infinity has a special place in my heart by being just deep enough, but still intuitive enough for no game to take longer than an hour at my house, even if its just beginners re-checking how hacking works.

[MARC C]

I'm also a SF fan at heart. And I only play alternate activation games (or with AROs in the case of Infinity).

My default game these days is Drop Zone Commander. The 10-15mm scale is a good change from Infinity. Its also very different in terms of game flavour. You can do large battles without the headaches of 40K's Apocalypse.... Plus the scenery box is sweet. On the down side it can get rather expensive. Below 1500pts its not really worth playing. I play Post-Human Republic PHR.

The post-apoc game Dark Age is fun to play too. The latest edition of the core rules came out last fall - at 20$ its dirt cheap... its also a d20 system! I play Broods.

Last year I also invested in real skirmish games (4-5 models) FreeBooter's Fate (Pirates), Pulp City (Supers) and bought a starter of Helldorado (Fantasy). But I have to admit I don't really have time to play more than one game with a few occasional games of a second game. Retaining the ruleset for 5 games is beyond me. Also they are not SF games so I'm less motivated to take them out of their box.

At age 49 I'm part of the generation who grew with Avalon Hill board games such as Squad Leaders, Submarines, CV, etc - every time I try to convince myself I should play a WWII miniature game I change my mind. Been there, done that...

Tried and rejected :
- 40K : Because of GW and the grim dark neo-nazi setting was getting to me.
- Warmahordes : Felt like playing MtG in 3D...
- Malifaux : Too many powers per miniature, bad ruleset, bad play testing.
- Mercs : No depth, repetitive.
- Heavy Gear : I've tried so hard to like this game... but it never grew on me.

[Section9]

Used to play 40k, still have some models to mess with and convert. Some of the models I bought for a Tau army are getting turned into Infinity scenery (a couple Victory Force Minis CLAWS suits).

Used to play Warmahordes, bailed. Sold pretty much everything off. Just couldn't play enough to stay on top of it, and I *hate* getting my ass kicked because I don't know the combo-of-doom I'm facing.

I have a bunch of Flames of War stuff, but am switching over to Battlegroup Kursk/Overlord/Fall of the Reich. Rules are a little less tournament-oriented and have a lot more interesting things that I wish Flames did.

Have lots of Anima Tactics minis, haven't played the game once. Got both the AT rulebook and the Anima RPG. AT is pretty decent, other than the number of wounds per model. Anima RPG is a ginormous fustercluck. Compare weapon type to armor type to determine base hit/miss/parry%?!? say WHAT?!?

I have Force on Force (moderns) and Tomorrows War (Scifi), both in 15mm. Lots of different 15mm forces in scifi, including a monster amount of Khurasan Miniatures "Exterminators" and "Space Demons", along with a couple Caiman APCs. Aliens and Colonial Marines, but I still need a couple dropships. I'm also developing a set of Tagon's Toughs from the Schlock Mercenary webcomic ( www.schlockmercenary.com/ ), using whatever nonhumans show up from across the interwebs, from elephants to a pile of poo and everything in between. Force on Force and Tomorrow's War are almost the same game engine with very few differences (and you just about need to use some of the rules from TW for the current US Army, with all the personal datalink stuff they have).

I've been *very* slowly building up some 15mm Napoleonics, read too much Sharpe when I was young and impressionable, so I'm building the Light Division using Lasalle units and AB minis. ABs are about as finely detailed as they come. Pricey, $0.70 each, but so worth it. Taking a long time to paint, and I've started off with the simplest three units to paint!

I've also started work on a project I call "Shenanigans in Baluchistan," inspired by the efforts of General Pettygree ( http://generalpettygree.blogspot.com/ ), just in 15mm. Got LOTS of Brits and Indian troops, I need to buy more Pathans. Lots more Pathans. I'm actually aiming for about 2:1 Pathans versus British Raj infantry (very few Pathans on horseback), and I'm planning on having an entire 2 or 3 Brigades making up the Field Force. roughly 80 Brits or Indians to the battalion, 4 battalions per brigade, plus cavalry and a close approximation of the appropriate baggage train for at least one brigade. It's going to be a bit nuts.

[MARC C]

Arachas: Batman looks Radical, not sure If I want to upscale though. More Tactical Depth is actually a negative to me, as I'm really tired of learning difficult rulesets. Infinity has a special place in my heart by being just deep enough, but still intuitive enough for no game to take longer than an hour at my house, even if its just beginners re-checking how hacking works.

In the Superhero genre Pulp City is fairly simply without being simplistic. Games are played on a 2"x2" surface with very few scenery - A few trash containers, cars, lamp posts and mail boxes will do - with only 4 or 5 models.

You can download the 2E Supreme beta rules and cards for free. They just launched a Kickstarter to get the 2E in hardcover book format L https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/47 ... n?ref=live

[Arachas]

@Hero of Man: you must have misread. Batman is LESS tactical than Infinity, but MORE cinematic. I hear the basics are actually quite simple and that the cinematic feeling comes from the many (and specific) special abilities in the game. I.e. Joker can do stuff no one else can, so can Penguin, etc etc. It takes some time to get to know "your" special rules, but when you do I hear it's awesome. And definitely easier on the head than Infinity (which I find very challenging sometimes, in terms of brainpower needed).

@Section 9: How would you compare Battlegroup Kursk/Overlord/Fall of the Reich vs Flames of War? I hear FoW is supposed to be 40k-like, which I'm sure I would dislike.

[Section9]

@Section 9: How would you compare Battlegroup Kursk/Overlord/Fall of the Reich vs Flames of War? I hear FoW is supposed to be 40k-like, which I'm sure I would dislike.

Flames is 40k-like, in that the entire game is IGOUGO. Each stand or vehicle rolls one or more dice for shooting, the vehicles vs terrain rules are very similar (roll a vehicle into difficult terrain and roll a die, on a 1 you're stuck and need to pass a skill check to get unstuck!). The assault step is very different, and I much prefer it. As you charge in, the target of the assault gets defensive fire. If you get enough hits on the way in, you may become pinned and the assault fails. If you make it into contact, then the entire assault is resolved in a single turn until either someone is wiped out or morale breaks.

You're moving entire platoons around, but a platoon is 3-10 vehicles or ~7-21 infantry stands.

The shooting phase is backwards compared to 40k. Your chance to hit is based on the TARGET's skill/training (more skilled troops make themselves harder to hit). All infantry get a 3+ cover save, too. Shooting at vehicles is also a bit backwards compared to 40k. I shoot at you, the defender gets to roll the "armor penetration" die to see if their armor saves it. It's vehicle's armor value plus die roll versus gun's AT value. Then, if the armor+roll EQUALS the strength of the shot, the shooter rolls the firepower die: Roll FP value or better and the tank is bailed out and needs to roll a skill check to recover. If the armor+roll beats the shot, no effect. And finally, if the armor+roll FAILS to beat the strength of the shot, shooter rolls firepower: Roll FP value or better and the tank blows up, roll under FP and you're ONLY bailed out.

When I'm pitching Flames to 40k players, I call it "40k done right."

Battlegroup, on the other hand, you might not be able to activate all your SQUADS or individual guns/tanks. It's a little "looser" in terms of rules phrasing. For shooting, there's a choice of 3 different options: Area fire, which is good for pinning down troops or vehicles; Aimed HE fire, good for killing troops or guns; and Aimed AP fire, which is for killing tanks. If you're doing Aimed fire, you need to roll to see if you successfully spotted the target first. Fail to spot, no shooting.

[Arachas]

Cool, thanks for that.

So, which do you prefer?

[sonicReducer]

I also play Flames of War down the club. It's a good club game, but the rules are quite convoluted, it took me ages to get my head around Concealed, Gone To Ground and Dug In and it still confuses me. If I had opponents I would prefer to use I Ain't Been Shot Mum.

I've been playing Sharp Practice, using 28mm Napoleonics. This is a 'large-scale skirmish' game that can be used for the horse and musket era. I love it. It uses card activations instead of IGOUGO and really focuses on the actions and decisions of officers. I'm doing Peninsular British and my buddy has French and Germans.

We are also planning to do Chain of Command in North Africa, Desert Rats and Afrikakorps. I wouldn't touch Bolt Action, too Warhammer WW2 for me. Chain of Command is very simple and elegant, using actual tactics is intended. Platoon make-up is also based on history rather than a list.

Finally Infinity. I actually haven't played for about 2 years but I've just started on my vanilla Haqq. There are a few guys playing at my club so I need to get in touch with them and get my stuff together

[Section9]

Cool, thanks for that.

So, which do you prefer?

I can get more opponents for for Flames, but I prefer Battlegroup.

[kidterminal]

Are there any other sci-fi cyberpunk miniatures games you guys play? And do you play them enough that you would want space to post about them here on Data Sphere?

[chromedog]

@Hero of man: Yes, I did play a few games of Eclipse phase. Our GM was a big fan of Richard Morgan, so we played in a 'world' ripped from the pages of his Kovacs trilogy. Didn't find it too clunky. I find D&D and Gurps to be clunky as hell - and I've tried Gurps C-punk (not a patch on 2013/2020).

I've also got Tomorrow's War - like Section 9. It's a fun little game - if you have other gamers who can think outside the "must have army lists and points costs" box.

Many of my "civvies" for Infinity were miniatures from my CP rpg days (used for both PCs and npcs - in combination with mapsheets). Mainly for combat purposes - but a set were also only used for the net combat stuff (all painted "glowy" blue and used on a blue-white grid).

[sonicReducer]

How does Tomorrow's War play? Sounds interesting. Is it squad skirmish or larger, like platoon size?

[Hero of Man]

@Arachas: Ah, my bad.

@Chrome: Oh man, that's EXACLTY what I want to play in an Eclipse Phase Game. I frickin' love the Takeshi Kovacs books.

[Section9]

How does Tomorrow's War play? Sounds interesting. Is it squad skirmish or larger, like platoon size?

Tomorrow's War uses fireteams as the smallest element moving around, so it's arguably platoon per side. However, you can play bigger games than that once you get used to the reaction cascade, and the rules have small scenarios to teach various parts of the game.

Somewhat like Infinity, it has an active player and a reactive player, but instead of each player having an active phase and a reactive phase every turn, it's one active player and the other player is reactive. Which player is active can depend on forces on the table, scenario rules, and can even change based on who did more damage in the last turn (kinda like Lord of the Rings SBG in that respect).

You will need MANY polyhedral dice. Not joking, a good 10 dice of each type (d6, d8, d10, and maybe d12) per player is recommended. I also recommend color-coding them, so that all your d8s are the same color and no other dice are that color.

There are also event cards that get drawn when someone flubs a Troop Quality check, and those cards can have a HUGE effect on the game. I'm talking things like having 70 tons of steel show up on one side or the other, Drone strikes, random IEDs, people running critically low on ammo, or even horrible weather conditions like a sandstorm blowing in. However, there is almost always another card in the deck to counteract the bad effects.

[Hero of Man]

Oh man, event cards sounds RADICAL.

[Twelvecarpileup]

I tend to bounce around from game to game a lot, Infinity staying in the rotation for the most part. Major problem with "shiny model" syndrome.

Right now:
Malifaux - Loving 2nd edition, and the new sculpts are probably the best I've ever seen in a game I like.
Dreadball - Simple, easy fun
Deadzone - Kickstarted, haven't played much yet. Great terrain for Infinity though
Warmachine - Less interest in this lately, don't like playing at stores... been playing it for a while.
Bolt Action - New hotness for me. Fairly cheap, and a sort of half army scale half skirmish game
Dust Warfare - Love the game, love the cost of the units. Hate the support for Dust Warfare.
Dropzone Commander - Starter set was so good I couldn't resist. Took a few blisters to finish off the army. Great game!
Dystopian Wars - Fun as hell, and managed to pick up multiple fleets for super cheap.
Probably a few others.

[Section9]

Oh man, event cards sounds RADICAL.

Yeah, you think crits mess with a theoretically predictable game?

Event cards can chuck game balance out the window entirely.

Imagine a PanO force suddenly without their tactical Grid. Completely alone, with no-one watching their back except at the face-to-face level.

Or maybe even something as simple as a dust storm blowing through. Or a Monsoon. All of a sudden, you can't see beyond 50 FEET.

[VisOne]

Does Tomorrows War scale to any size?

I'm curious about 15mm gaming just for shits and giggles terrain/painting and wonder if Tomorrows War or Gruntz would be better.

[Lampyridae]

It scales pretty well from what I can tell. It's designed for 15mm but will scale nicely to 28mm. Weapon ranges are infinite for rifles so it's more like it's Infinity that is at a smaller scale.

Oh, and I offered a few words on the climate and weather of Glory based on the landmasses distribution. My claim to fame! LOL

[sonicReducer]

Tomorrow's War uses ...

Sounds pretty interesting. Might be a future 15mm project.
Do you ever find you get mixed up with all the different dice, I can see myself getting frustrated rolling D8s instead of D10s by mistake. Sounds like a great ruleset though. I would like some more sci-fi in my rule rotation

Sharp Practice (the Napoleonic ruleset I play) uses bonus cards, but they are a bit more light-hearted and true to the period. Things like needing to draw a Water card because musket barrels are too fouled to fire, the men running off to loot a property or an officer stepping in doggy doo and needing to wash it off. Good times

[Section9]

Tomorrow's War uses ...

Sounds pretty interesting. Might be a future 15mm project.
Do you ever find you get mixed up with all the different dice, I can see myself getting frustrated rolling D8s instead of D10s by mistake. Sounds like a great ruleset though. I would like some more sci-fi in my rule rotation

That's why I suggest getting getting dice of different colors (say, from Ground Zero Games, where they sell sets of yellow d4s, green d6, blue d8, orange d10, and red d12).

[Hero of Man]

Oh man, event cards sounds RADICAL.

Yeah, you think crits mess with a theoretically predictable game?

Event cards can chuck game balance out the window entirely.

Imagine a PanO force suddenly without their tactical Grid. Completely alone, with no-one watching their back except at the face-to-face level.

Or maybe even something as simple as a dust storm blowing through. Or a Monsoon. All of a sudden, you can't see beyond 50 FEET.

We need to work on something like this for Infinity.

[kidterminal]

So how many people here are playing Tomorrow's War and what scale are you playing it in?

[Section9]

So how many people here are playing Tomorrow's War and what scale are you playing it in?

I play it in 15mm, though I almost have enough line grunts to make it work using infinity minis in 28mm.

Oh man, event cards sounds RADICAL.

Yeah, you think crits mess with a theoretically predictable game?

Event cards can chuck game balance out the window entirely.

Imagine a PanO force suddenly without their tactical Grid. Completely alone, with no-one watching their back except at the face-to-face level.

Or maybe even something as simple as a dust storm blowing through. Or a Monsoon. All of a sudden, you can't see beyond 50 FEET.

We need to work on something like this for Infinity.

They're cool for scenarios, the challenge is figuring out what would cause an event card to be drawn (and translate the multiple-dice attacks into Infinity terms).

I need to figure out how to upload a file, I found the first edition of TW on my computer and made a PDF of the fog of war cards.

[chromedog]

I play TW in 28mm. Usually 2-4 fire teams at D8-D10TQ Can go as high as 8 teams at D6TQ.
I've got no 15mm (of any kind) and courtesy of other games over the years, scads of 28mm figures and vehicles for it.

Demo'd it for my club using my 40k stuff. 10 marines (2 fireteams of 4 with bolters, 1 HWT (2 man) with a heavy bolter and a rhino) v 40 "rebels" (variety of weapons) and a chimera for light support. Marines had to recover a wounded marine and take him back to their DZ within 4 turns. Rebels had to prevent this. Marines managed a win with only ONE marine and the wounded one remaining after losing their transport in the first turn. He weathered an obscene amount of fire at him.

[VisOne]

A local gaming group has a 24 hour charity event each year and one of the Infinity players is planning on having a casual 40K Kill Team Tournameant during it but unoffical rules.

http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.com.au/ ... rules.html

It has actually caught my eye I own very very little GW style miniatures now but I do have some Alternative Sculptsand this only calls for a small skirmish style force so I might actually paint them up and give these rules a whirl just for something different. Something like a Commissar lead Penal Legion w/ the dreges of a of Strom Troopers squad who have lost the brothers in arms they were raised, trained and had faught with for years.

Won't stack up agains't Infinity I know that but might for a beer and pretzels game.