Operation Icestorm

[Guarda de Assalto]

Hey look people with differing opinions!

For me I rank the Father-Knight above the MB as well. He's shiny and all but he just doesn't do much or me compared to the FK. I think I have a thing for just big HI like the Sogarat and Ajax.[/color]

The significance here is that it's possible to have differing opinions without laying into each other in a flame war

That Sogarat though... Damn.

Personally I think the ORC is the best HI in the box; I dig his understated awesomeness. Father knight looks too much like a damn space marine for me to ever consider fielding so both my copies will be hitting the auction block. The new Brigada is super slick but since he's nomad he is verboten and must be traded away for another ORC.

[Icchan]

I was talking about shooting but yes you want to measure your movement from the same side of your base at the start and end of it.

If there is 5" between two models of the same base size as measured from center to center then there is also 5" between them if you measure from the front of one base to the back of the other which is a better method since it prevents arguing about where the center of a base is.

Apologies, for some reason I was assuming movement. But I'd still go for front-to-front for shooting, because you're still getting robbed of 1 inch of your weapon range if you measure center-to-center or front-to-back.

[chaos11]

I was talking about shooting but yes you want to measure your movement from the same side of your base at the start and end of it.

If there is 5" between two models of the same base size as measured from center to center then there is also 5" between them if you measure from the front of one base to the back of the other which is a better method since it prevents arguing about where the center of a base is.

Apologies, for some reason I was assuming movement. But I'd still go for front-to-front for shooting, because you're still getting robbed of 1 inch of your weapon range if you measure center-to-center or front-to-back.

It is front to front now for shooting in the rules from what I could gather from the video

[Guges]

I'm glad they finally changed to a more conventional measuring system.

Prior to GW in 1987, every other miniatures game I played measured centre-to-centre. IT is a conventional system. GW usurped it.

This was also back in the day where models were basically lumps of lead. With the dynamic models we have today, especially Infinity models, finding the center of a base simply doesn't work well at all. Base to base is going to clean up gameplay a lot.

Now all they need to do is add obscurement to shooting...

[nobunaga3.2]

Personally I think the ORC is the best HI in the box; I dig his understated awesomeness. Father knight looks too much like a damn space marine for me to ever consider fielding so both my copies will be hitting the auction block. The new Brigada is super slick but since he's nomad he is verboten and must be traded away for another ORC.

we might have to make a deal....

[chaos11]

Pre ordered from Element Games, £60 and three quid postage, bargain! Can't waitttt

[ToadChild]

It's the same for shooting - front of one model to back of the other. So long as they have the same base size, that is.

It's not and if you think about it you'll see why. When you're shooting, you only have to reach the edge of the target you're shooting at. So edge-to-edge measuring makes sense. Center-to-center measuring for shooting means that the minimum possible distance was always 1", even when the bases are touching each other. That means you're being robbed 1" from your weapon's shooting range.
For movement it's different. The move distance varies wildly if you first measure your movement front-to-back, then after the movement take any two spots from your starting spot and your ending spot and measure the distance. for a model on a 1" base that moved 1" front-to-back, after the movement if measured back-to-front the distance difference is three inches! Where did these magic inches come from?

The current Infinity rules specify that ranges for shooting is measured center to center. This is changing in N3, but right now this is what the rules say. As another commenter pointed out, that means your range is 1" if you are in BtB contact.

If you measure near side of one mini to far side of the other mini, you end up with the same range, assuming the bases are the same size. Instead of taking half a base diameter from each model, you take both of them from just the one.

When moving a model, you should always measure from one point to the same point (without rotating the model). I frequently use the top of the head, or a similar point that sticks up and is easily referenced.

[lgeiger]

It's the same for shooting - front of one model to back of the other. So long as they have the same base size, that is.

It's not and if you think about it you'll see why. When you're shooting, you only have to reach the edge of the target you're shooting at. So edge-to-edge measuring makes sense. Center-to-center measuring for shooting means that the minimum possible distance was always 1", even when the bases are touching each other. That means you're being robbed 1" from your weapon's shooting range.
For movement it's different. The move distance varies wildly if you first measure your movement front-to-back, then after the movement take any two spots from your starting spot and your ending spot and measure the distance. for a model on a 1" base that moved 1" front-to-back, after the movement if measured back-to-front the distance difference is three inches! Where did these magic inches come from?

The current Infinity rules specify that ranges for shooting is measured center to center. This is changing in N3, but right now this is what the rules say. As another commenter pointed out, that means your range is 1" if you are in BtB contact.

If you measure near side of one mini to far side of the other mini, you end up with the same range, assuming the bases are the same size. Instead of taking half a base diameter from each model, you take both of them from just the one.

When moving a model, you should always measure from one point to the same point (without rotating the model). I frequently use the top of the head, or a similar point that sticks up and is easily referenced.

BOW covered the N3 Rules and they are movement as front of base edge to front of base edge (or back edge to back edge). Shooting is nearest base edge to nearest base edge of target.

[jake]

Alguaciles: very happy with these as well, although curious why the guys have an awesome battle pose and the lady is just doing some stupid "hey big boy" pose. CB seems to be having this issue with most of their females lately.

To me it looks like she's pointing and saying "shoot over there", which is a pretty reasonable thing to do.

[jake]

One final thing - the Father-Knight and Reverend Healers appear to be new troops, rather than named characters, is this correct?

I really don't think so, although it's hard to tell. I mean, they're not named characters, but they feel like Dire Foes. My guess would be that they'll be AVA one, with only a single profile option (or possibly a choice between Boarding shotgun and Combi Rifle).

[jake]

Father knight: meh - really big meh - after seeing the Mobile Brigada, I can't believe anyone would release this mess. ? Obviously I know which faction the employee at CB truly love. Maybe I can use his helmet for something
ORC: again disappointing, and these has sooo much potential. maybe when I see him in real life......again I could always use the helmet.s

Completely disagree. The Father Knight is easily the cream of the box in my eyes, and the ORC is delicious. I'm currently debating whether or not to convert him into a Hospitaler or to leave him as an ORC and start vanilla. The Nisse is good enough to make that seem enticing...

Damn that Nisse is gorgeous.

Hey look people with differing opinions!

For me I rank the Father-Knight above the MB as well. He's shiny and all but he just doesn't do much or me compared to the FK. I think I have a thing for just big HI like the Sogarat and Ajax.

The Father-Knight and Mobile Brigada are almost exactly the same size. The Father-Knight would be very slightly taller if he were standing upright, but the Mobile Brigada is noticeably thicker in the torso, arms and legs. neither are anywhere near the size of Ajax or the new Sogarat (or the old one). they're about the size of the new Vangaurd models, or just slightly larger than previous HI.

[ElectricPaladin]

Well, FWIW, I think all the models are great , to the point that the box has me more interested than I was previously in Bakunin and even starting PanO!

[jake]

Well, FWIW, I think all the models are great , to the point that the box has me more interested than I was previously in Bakunin and even starting PanO!

I agree, I think the models are all really fantastic. Each has a lot of character, and each is very easy to assemble. Faction purists aside, I think most players picking up this box will have a hard time choosing between the two armies. I know I'm very tempted to buy a few extra Nomad models to round out the box.

[wackenandy]

I was only into Bakunin before the Box, but now im tempt to play Corregidor and Tunguska and everything else what in the box is.

Hopefully my order at CB works how it should, can't wait for september and assembling and coloring those nice figures.

[chaos11]

I was mainly into Corregidor, but I'm loving all the new Tunguska stuff. The Grenzer and Spektr in the box are amongst my favourites.

[nobunaga3.2]

Alguaciles: very happy with these as well, although curious why the guys have an awesome battle pose and the lady is just doing some stupid "hey big boy" pose. CB seems to be having this issue with most of their females lately.

To me it looks like she's pointing and saying "shoot over there", which is a pretty reasonable thing to do.

and yet in 5 different sets of 3 minis - its always the female pointing and the guys shooting...why is that? why do the guys carry big packs and the women won't carry one because it covers their ass? hmmm?

[wackenandy]

Alguaciles: very happy with these as well, although curious why the guys have an awesome battle pose and the lady is just doing some stupid "hey big boy" pose. CB seems to be having this issue with most of their females lately.

To me it looks like she's pointing and saying "shoot over there", which is a pretty reasonable thing to do.

and yet in 5 different sets of 3 minis - its always the female pointing and the guys shooting...why is that? why do the guys carry big packs and the women won't carry one because it covers their ass? hmmm?

Don't forget the MK12 Sin-Eater, he is pointing, too. Well its more stop right where you are.

But with the resculpt of the Spektres and the overall more darker look of Tunguska, i hope there will be a redone of the awful Szalamandra TAG. Kinda like the stats but the old one is really the most hideous TAG in the whole game.

[jake]

Alguaciles: very happy with these as well, although curious why the guys have an awesome battle pose and the lady is just doing some stupid "hey big boy" pose. CB seems to be having this issue with most of their females lately.

To me it looks like she's pointing and saying "shoot over there", which is a pretty reasonable thing to do.

and yet in 5 different sets of 3 minis - its always the female pointing and the guys shooting...why is that? why do the guys carry big packs and the women won't carry one because it covers their ass? hmmm?

I feel like that's two separate issues? I mean, you're specifically saying "the lady is just doing some stupid "hey big boy" pose", but what I'm seeing is a pretty standard pointing pose, which is a reasonable thing for a soldier (male or female) to be doing.

I'm not denying that there's some disparity here. You're right that mean tend to get the shooting poses and women tend to get the standing poses, or that women don't carry packs, and that's likely to give us an unobstructed view of their ass (or maybe not? The female Bolts, Regulars, Wulvers, Muttawi'ah and several others all wear the same packs as their male counterparts, and several of them are also shotting). Anyway, there is desparity, but that's not what I was commenting on.

[chaos11]

Don't forget the MK12 Sin-Eater, he is pointing, too. Well its more stop right where you are.

But with the resculpt of the Spektres and the overall more darker look of Tunguska, i hope there will be a redone of the awful Szalamandra TAG. Kinda like the stats but the old one is really the most hideous TAG in the whole game.

I'd love a re sculpted Szalamandra.

[Solodice]

The Father-Knight and Mobile Brigada are almost exactly the same size. The Father-Knight would be very slightly taller if he were standing upright, but the Mobile Brigada is noticeably thicker in the torso, arms and legs. neither are anywhere near the size of Ajax or the new Sogarat (or the old one). they're about the size of the new Vangaurd models, or just slightly larger than previous HI.

I know they're the same size. I've seen the team pictures

I was just exaggerating the point when the FK was first shown he could of been mistaken for a 40mm HI. Also that pack back... gives him a much larger silhouette then most HI his size.

I really don't think so, although it's hard to tell. I mean, they're not named characters, but they feel like Dire Foes. My guess would be that they'll be AVA one, with only a single profile option (or possibly a choice between Boarding shotgun and Combi Rifle).

Well we do know N3 will introduce new units to us (uh hello Grenzer). Also we've known about Father-Knights since the Sereph was introduced in HS. Their fluff says the Father-Knights are the ones who pilot the Serephs.

Also their unit patches don't match all the other Spec-Ops in their faction. They both have unique unit patches which the Spec-Ops don't have.

So I'm firmly in the camp that the Reverend Healer and the Father-Knight are two new units.

[spektr]

Alguaciles: very happy with these as well, although curious why the guys have an awesome battle pose and the lady is just doing some stupid "hey big boy" pose. CB seems to be having this issue with most of their females lately.

To me it looks like she's pointing and saying "shoot over there", which is a pretty reasonable thing to do.

and yet in 5 different sets of 3 minis - its always the female pointing and the guys shooting...why is that? why do the guys carry big packs and the women won't carry one because it covers their ass? hmmm?

Let's not resurrect The Thread That Shall Not Be Named on this shiny new forum. That one I am happy not to copy across.

[ElectricPaladin]

I think the Szalamandra's design is great. I think the sculpt is... showing its age. It was definitely one of the better sculpts of its generation - a generation that included, for example, the old intruders, and the old mobile brigada, and the original squalo - but it doesn't really stand up alongside the modern sculpts.

Personally, I hope they redo the sculpt, but keep as much of the original design as possible.

And given that pretty much everything from that era is getting a resculpt, bit by bit, I think that a szalamandra 2.0 is definitely in the works. We just don't know when.

[McNamara]

Well we do know N3 will introduce new units to us (uh hello Grenzer). Also we've known about Father-Knights since the Sereph was introduced in HS. Their fluff says the Father-Knights are the ones who pilot the Serephs.

Also their unit patches don't match all the other Spec-Ops in their faction. They both have unique unit patches which the Spec-Ops don't have.

So I'm firmly in the camp that the Reverend Healer and the Father-Knight are two new units.[/color]

In their new released concept art it also shows more than one main weapons, so they are a probably a unit and not a character!

[Solodice]

Well we do know N3 will introduce new units to us (uh hello Grenzer). Also we've known about Father-Knights since the Sereph was introduced in HS. Their fluff says the Father-Knights are the ones who pilot the Serephs.

Also their unit patches don't match all the other Spec-Ops in their faction. They both have unique unit patches which the Spec-Ops don't have.

So I'm firmly in the camp that the Reverend Healer and the Father-Knight are two new units.[/color]

In there new released concept art it also shows more than one main weapons, so they are a probably a unit and not a character!

Edit: Is the text in this post all red for anyone else?

[McNamara]

The forum software highlights text sometimes red. I think if linked to the direct post or if you just posted it, which kinda is a link to that specific post too, I suppose.

[jake]

Well we do know N3 will introduce new units to us (uh hello Grenzer). Also we've known about Father-Knights since the Sereph was introduced in HS. Their fluff says the Father-Knights are the ones who pilot the Serephs.

Also their unit patches don't match all the other Spec-Ops in their faction. They both have unique unit patches which the Spec-Ops don't have.

So I'm firmly in the camp that the Reverend Healer and the Father-Knight are two new units.[/color]

In their new released concept art it also shows more than one main weapons, so they are a probably a unit and not a character!

Yeah, after seeing the Beast of Wars video I think I was wrong. It does look like they'll be a unit with multiple options.

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that the were Spec-Ops or characters, only that they were similar to Dire Foes, and I suspected they'd be single option profiles with AVA 1.

[BakuninLover]

LOVED todays BoW video on Designing O:I. Thank you very much BOW and Carlos for doing this!!!

[macfergusson]

Didn't see this posted anywhere else yet.

Click for more

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[Deathwig]

Preordered mine from arcaneminitures £63.70 plus free delivery. The brigada and grenzer are my favs.

[chaos11]

Preordered mine from arcaneminitures £63.70 plus free delivery. The brigada and grenzer are my favs.

£62.94 from Element Games