Operation Icestorm

[Guges]

So if there's a ladder, do you need to use a separate climb skill once you reach the ladder or can your two move skills be contiguous before and after you hit the ladder?

I think models with Kinematics and Hyper Dynamics are going to be a lot of fun.

[macfergusson]

So if there's a ladder, do you need to use a separate climb skill once you reach the ladder or can your two move skills be contiguous before and after you hit the ladder?

I think models with Kinematics and Hyper Dynamics are going to be a lot of fun.

Based on how it was done in the video, you treat the ladder as just part of the movement skill, no special rules required. As if moving across flat terrain. But, y'know, up.

If Jump is getting a similar treatment, we may finally be putting Quantum Teleportation behind us...

[chaos11]

...while troops with Climbing Plus will still have a fantastic, dynamic rule edge over their less agile counterparts.

What does climbing plus do over normal climbing? I thought climbing plus was just you didn't have to roll and counted it as your normal move, which it sounds like everyone does now.

Prediction is looking like climbing plus will allow your short skill to be full MOV (say 4") then another short skill left that you can shoot with or climb further in the same order, for example. New Climbing rule without Climbing Plus would be a long skill to move 4" and that's it.

Ah okay, thanks for the clarification guys.

[FellintoOblivion]

So if climbing a ladder just uses your normal movement value now, is it possible to end your activation half way up the ladder?

[macfergusson]

So if climbing a ladder just uses your normal movement value now, is it possible to end your activation half way up the ladder?

That has always been possible. The question is whether or not you can perform other skills from that position.

[FellintoOblivion]

If it's now mandatory to move your full movement value after a failed guts roll this could lead to situations where the only available destinations actually leave you in a worse off spot then where you were. This seems contrary to the spirit of have rule.

[Lord Sessadore]

So if there's a ladder, do you need to use a separate climb skill once you reach the ladder or can your two move skills be contiguous before and after you hit the ladder?

I think models with Kinematics and Hyper Dynamics are going to be a lot of fun.

Based on how it was done in the video, you treat the ladder as just part of the movement skill, no special rules required. As if moving across flat terrain. But, y'know, up.

If Jump is getting a similar treatment, we may finally be putting Quantum Teleportation behind us...

So basically, ladders give everyone climbing plus. Assuming climbing plus is the same as now. Sound right?

[Harlekin]

If it's now mandatory to move your full movement value after a failed guts roll this could lead to situations where the only available destinations actually leave you in a worse off spot then where you were. This seems contrary to the spirit of have rule.

In the vid, failure of a guts roll resulted in a move for 2 inches, IIRC.

[Alf O'Mega]

Still pretty new to infinity after lurking for a while but needing a skill to be able to climb a ladder is a bit of an eye opener. How it's done in the vid seems kind of sensible to me?

[Claudius Sol]

So if there's a ladder, do you need to use a separate climb skill once you reach the ladder or can your two move skills be contiguous before and after you hit the ladder?

I think models with Kinematics and Hyper Dynamics are going to be a lot of fun.

Based on how it was done in the video, you treat the ladder as just part of the movement skill, no special rules required. As if moving across flat terrain. But, y'know, up.

If Jump is getting a similar treatment, we may finally be putting Quantum Teleportation behind us...

So basically, ladders give everyone climbing plus. Assuming climbing plus is the same as now. Sound right?

No no, you're missing the important part that Climbing Plus allows you to use Short Skills besides movement Skills while "climbing". Not confirmed in the video, but I think safe to assume, ladders will prevent usage of non-movement short skills to be used (ie. Shoot, Lay Mine, Dodge, Hack, whatever). Climbing Plus is still the amazing skill it's always been.

[ToadChild]

Is "Assault" is a rule that the Father-Knight has? Furthermore, is it in place of any existing known CC rules (Martial Arts, Berserk, etc)?

I'm going to emulate other users and let CB set the pace for releasing the new stat lines, but your assumptions for your question are all factually correct. In particular, there are some interesting things happening with the CC stat that we haven't seen on any profile before.

Your discretion is admired, and the answers you gave are appreciated.

One final thing - the Father-Knight and Reverend Healers appear to be new troops, rather than named characters, is this correct?

[Lord Sessadore]

Based on how it was done in the video, you treat the ladder as just part of the movement skill, no special rules required. As if moving across flat terrain. But, y'know, up.

If Jump is getting a similar treatment, we may finally be putting Quantum Teleportation behind us...

So basically, ladders give everyone climbing plus. Assuming climbing plus is the same as now. Sound right?

No no, you're missing the important part that Climbing Plus allows you to use Short Skills besides movement Skills while "climbing". Not confirmed in the video, but I think safe to assume, ladders will prevent usage of non-movement short skills to be used (ie. Shoot, Lay Mine, Dodge, Hack, whatever). Climbing Plus is still the amazing skill it's always been.

Ah, an important distinction, yes. Thanks.

[Barakiel]

Your discretion is admired, and the answers you gave are appreciated.

One final thing - the Father-Knight and Reverend Healers appear to be new troops, rather than named characters, is this correct?

Cheers. Your insights were dead-on.

And correct! Both appear to be an entirely new unit type.

[Solar]

I hope the Knight Father is good because he's getting used either way, the pose and design is too cool not to use.

Maybe they'll get a specialist option! That'll be, like, the third Knight specialist! Decadence!

[nobunaga3.2]

ack! I've been away from 5 days - well away from all infinity news, just joined up here today. Nice to see the long-awaited models finally, For me its a pretty mixed bag. I am actually completely blown away by some fo the models and other leave me a bit mehed out.
CSU: really really nice model, even better then I imagined - Almost a must have - not sure if she alone is worth ordering the box though. Makes me want an army of them.
Mobile Brigada: Holy shit - I had no idea even CB could fit so much awesome into a mini- probably my current favorite miniature. and the fact that its a Corregidor model that I have been waiting for is even better. The helmet is completely epic. This is how to sculpt a HI. only problem is now CB has backed themselves into a corner and will have to redesign all HI to be as cool. also love the chest armour design tie-in to the Iquana operator. Only 1 nitpick, Why is he posing on a piece of junk? stupid foot on .......
Reverand healer: nice, attractive, she will make me want to finally buy some Moiras. My daughter liked her.
Grenzer: very nice - something about his pants throws me off, but otherwise pretty nice =- hate the tech rock though.
Spektre: beautiful - very nice - but wondering how he will look next to the old spektre hacker
Alguaciles: very happy with these as well, although curious why the guys have an awesome battle pose and the lady is just doing some stupid "hey big boy" pose. CB seems to be having this issue with most of their females lately.
Father knight: meh - really big meh - after seeing the Mobile Brigada, I can't believe anyone would release this mess. ? Obviously I know which faction the employee at CB truly love. Maybe I can use his helmet for something
ORC: again disappointing, and these has sooo much potential. maybe when I see him in real life......again I could always use the helmet.
Nisse: this one is really nice - love the coat, and the pose I think I want this one even though he seems to be abusing his latest checked item from the library.
Akhalis: good enough, but doesn't do anything for me
Fusiliers: looking to "beefy" and the lady suffers from the same issue the Alguacile lady does. ( I think I am going to put togather a little something in honor of the issue.)

All in all a complete moral victory for Nomads and thank you CB for helping me avoid a necessary PanO addiction that I though tI would have to deal with after the Bolts

[Mob of Blondes]

One question: it seems measurements are edge to edge (nearest ones), but how does that work for movement?

[Splod]

Father knight: meh - really big meh - after seeing the Mobile Brigada, I can't believe anyone would release this mess. ? Obviously I know which faction the employee at CB truly love. Maybe I can use his helmet for something
ORC: again disappointing, and these has sooo much potential. maybe when I see him in real life......again I could always use the helmet.s

Completely disagree. The Father Knight is easily the cream of the box in my eyes, and the ORC is delicious. I'm currently debating whether or not to convert him into a Hospitaler or to leave him as an ORC and start vanilla. The Nisse is good enough to make that seem enticing...

Damn that Nisse is gorgeous.

[Lord Sessadore]

One question: it seems measurements are edge to edge (nearest ones), but how does that work for movement?

I would imagine it works from same edge to same edge. I.E. front-to-front or back-to-back. Which works out to the same as center-to-center. If you do anything else, the miniature is actually moving further (or not as far) as the distance you measure.

Honest question: did anyone actually measure movement center to center? We always did front to front (or occasionally back to back for convenience), because it's simply easier and less error prone, and accomplishes the exact same thing.

[Penemue]

Honest question: did anyone actually measure movement center to center? We always did front to front (or occasionally back to back for convenience), because it's simply easier and less error prone, and accomplishes the exact same thing.

We do (not all of us, but many!), all the time. When you get so used to measuring ranges from centre-to-centre, movement is just the same thing. I'm more worried about people fudging dice rolls or orders in Infinity. Movement mishaps - accidental or not - usually occur in other games.

[Barakiel]

I think part of the excellence of O:I is that it appeals to a lot of different aesthetics. There's something for everyone in there. I'm sure they had that in mind when putting it together... Big swords, big guns, cheesecake, big awesome trenchcoats, sleek full body armor, a big of everything to help appeal to new players and display the diversity of the range.

[Machinist]

Father knight: meh - really big meh - after seeing the Mobile Brigada, I can't believe anyone would release this mess. ? Obviously I know which faction the employee at CB truly love. Maybe I can use his helmet for something

They wanted to make him cool or something along those lines. I guess people love Ajax and Tarik character style.

[FellintoOblivion]

One question: it seems measurements are edge to edge (nearest ones), but how does that work for movement?

I would imagine it works from same edge to same edge. I.E. front-to-front or back-to-back. Which works out to the same as center-to-center. If you do anything else, the miniature is actually moving further (or not as far) as the distance you measure.

Honest question: did anyone actually measure movement center to center? We always did front to front (or occasionally back to back for convenience), because it's simply easier and less error prone, and accomplishes the exact same thing.

I'm glad they finally changed to a more conventional measuring system.

I never did middle to middle but doing front to front or back to back seem like shady ways of doing it since you're now fudging the actual measurements.

Measuring front to back actually gives you the same distance as center to center and is much more accurate.

[Icchan]

I never did middle to middle but doing front to front or back to back seem like shady ways of doing it since you're now fudging the actual measurements.

Measuring front to back actually gives you the same distance as center to center and is much more accurate.

What? Your statement is 100% false. If you measure movement front-to-back, you gain your bases width worth of movement. Bikes would move over 2 inches just by moving them 1 millimeter!

[ToadChild]

I never did middle to middle but doing front to front or back to back seem like shady ways of doing it since you're now fudging the actual measurements.

Measuring front to back actually gives you the same distance as center to center and is much more accurate.

What? Your statement is 100% false. If you measure movement front-to-back, you gain your bases width worth of movement. Bikes would move over 2 inches just by moving them 1 millimeter!

It's the same for shooting - front of one model to back of the other. So long as they have the same base size, that is.

[chromedog]

I'm glad they finally changed to a more conventional measuring system.

Prior to GW in 1987, every other miniatures game I played measured centre-to-centre. IT is a conventional system. GW usurped it.

[Icchan]

It's the same for shooting - front of one model to back of the other. So long as they have the same base size, that is.

It's not and if you think about it you'll see why. When you're shooting, you only have to reach the edge of the target you're shooting at. So edge-to-edge measuring makes sense. Center-to-center measuring for shooting means that the minimum possible distance was always 1", even when the bases are touching each other. That means you're being robbed 1" from your weapon's shooting range.
For movement it's different. The move distance varies wildly if you first measure your movement front-to-back, then after the movement take any two spots from your starting spot and your ending spot and measure the distance. for a model on a 1" base that moved 1" front-to-back, after the movement if measured back-to-front the distance difference is three inches! Where did these magic inches come from?

[Solodice]

Father knight: meh - really big meh - after seeing the Mobile Brigada, I can't believe anyone would release this mess. ? Obviously I know which faction the employee at CB truly love. Maybe I can use his helmet for something
ORC: again disappointing, and these has sooo much potential. maybe when I see him in real life......again I could always use the helmet.s

Completely disagree. The Father Knight is easily the cream of the box in my eyes, and the ORC is delicious. I'm currently debating whether or not to convert him into a Hospitaler or to leave him as an ORC and start vanilla. The Nisse is good enough to make that seem enticing...

Damn that Nisse is gorgeous.

Hey look people with differing opinions!

For me I rank the Father-Knight above the MB as well. He's shiny and all but he just doesn't do much or me compared to the FK. I think I have a thing for just big HI like the Sogarat and Ajax.

[Splod]

Hey look people with differing opinions!

For me I rank the Father-Knight above the MB as well. He's shiny and all but he just doesn't do much or me compared to the FK. I think I have a thing for just big HI like the Sogarat and Ajax.[/color]

The significance here is that it's possible to have differing opinions without laying into each other in a flame war

That Sogarat though... Damn.

[Lord Sessadore]

It's the same for shooting - front of one model to back of the other. So long as they have the same base size, that is.

It's not and if you think about it you'll see why. When you're shooting, you only have to reach the edge of the target you're shooting at. So edge-to-edge measuring makes sense. Center-to-center measuring for shooting means that the minimum possible distance was always 1", even when the bases are touching each other. That means you're being robbed 1" from your weapon's shooting range.
For movement it's different. The move distance varies wildly if you first measure your movement front-to-back, then after the movement take any two spots from your starting spot and your ending spot and measure the distance. for a model on a 1" base that moved 1" front-to-back, after the movement if measured back-to-front the distance difference is three inches! Where did these magic inches come from?

This is what I was trying to say, but clearer.

If anyone doubts this, line up three minis on a line. Move the first 4" by measuring front to front (or back to back, or center to center - these three methods should all result the same). Move the second 4" by measuring front to back. Move the third by measuruing back to front. All three will end up different distances from the starting line.

[FellintoOblivion]

I never did middle to middle but doing front to front or back to back seem like shady ways of doing it since you're now fudging the actual measurements.

Measuring front to back actually gives you the same distance as center to center and is much more accurate.

What? Your statement is 100% false. If you measure movement front-to-back, you gain your bases width worth of movement. Bikes would move over 2 inches just by moving them 1 millimeter!

I was talking about shooting but yes you want to measure your movement from the same side of your base at the start and end of it.

If there is 5" between two models of the same base size as measured from center to center then there is also 5" between them if you measure from the front of one base to the back of the other which is a better method since it prevents arguing about where the center of a base is.