Let's sit down, o brothers, and try to note what has changed - and how that will it affect the way the Sword of Allah is being wielded...
I was awaiting it with an open mind, but I must admit, I'm pretty shocked and stunned by some of the changes. It will take time, till I manage to comprehend it all.
So, help yourself on coffee, tea, the shisha is at your disposal, too. Let's think. Let's talk. We need to search for wisdom...
So, the N3 profiles have come true...
34 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
Your Nomad friends are also stunned. The disappointments are great but Fortune smiles upon the strangest of units.
Sent from my Lumia 510 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Lumia 510 using Tapatalk
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Lampyridae - Posts: 699
- Joined: February 2nd, 2013, 10:41 am
- Location: South Africa
- Has liked: 137 times
- Been liked: 61 times
Well, since my Nomad contractors are affected as well, I'll give a look into their discussion panel, too.
As for now, I'm still a bit angry about the need of rebasing my 5 Azra'ils...
As for now, I'm still a bit angry about the need of rebasing my 5 Azra'ils...
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
Errhile wrote:As for now, I'm still a bit angry about the need of rebasing my 5 Azra'ils...
I'm still angry about not rebasing my 5 Exrah
(and rebasing 4 drones, 6 motorcycles, 3 Charontids, 2 old Pretas (tricky), a Sogarat, and 5 TAGs
The Wormbot I'm not angry about, he had it coming.)
Am I blind/crazy/got a bad pdf, or did Azra'ils lose the AP/Panzer/LFT and Spitfire profiles? All I see are a HMG and FB one... and a Silhouette change? Ugh.
ANIMATION INTENSIFIES
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Hero of Man - Posts: 877
- Joined: July 31st, 2013, 6:27 pm
- Has liked: 53 times
- Been liked: 54 times
As for Azra'ils, yes. Seems the Spitfire has been replaced with HMG, and the AP/LFT/Panzerfaust profile is missing. Which I consider to be a typo-like mistake, as the model itself did existed for quite a long time, and wasn't recalled for resculpt back in the autumn, when Koni was announcing revoked models. Nor was the Feuerbach one.
On one hand, given the new Silhouette value, the resculpt would be logical. On the other, the Spitfire profile - re-armed with HMG - was the one that wasn't released (yes, I have converted it).
All in all, I see the Azra'il have changed, and I can't say they really improved. The Feuerbach had lost his Assault Pistol, so neither of the two presented in the Profile document is any good up close. Also, the two presented profiles mean that a full link of 3 Azra'ils is going to eat 6 SWC, a prohibitive cost IMO.
With Silhouette increase they lost the ability to play mind games with Hafza (who can still link in, but can no longer Holoproject as Azra'il, I suppose -due to Silhouette difference). They also became more difficult to get in Cover, and more difficult to maneuver in urban terrain (they no longer can negotiate Narrow Access points).
They certainly gained in one area, Armor. But I can not say I consider it a good trade.
Point cost... remained largely unchanged. I have yet to see the new writeup for the Feuerbach weapon - in 2ed, it wasn't really that impressive...
All in all, the unit seems to be intended for combat in open areas - where they can use the long range of their weapons, and their lack of ability in negotiating tight passages doesn't make a problem.
Seems they will be relegated to a specialised role, and replaced by Janissaries as a general application HI for QK.
Seems the Azra'il fill into the same "fire support HI" role as the Yan Huo Invincibles.
The Yan Huo get similar profile (though with +3 CC and +1 BS, while Azra'ils have +1 WIP), 2 SWC per model, and cost 53 points for a MultiHMG variant, +15 comapred to Azrail armed with ordinary HMG.
They also get a HMC for 54pts, and dual Missile Launcher for 52pts. Which actually makes me a bit jealous.
They're also availability 2 in vanilla, though not available at all in any sectorial, so as for now they cannot link.
On one hand, given the new Silhouette value, the resculpt would be logical. On the other, the Spitfire profile - re-armed with HMG - was the one that wasn't released (yes, I have converted it).
All in all, I see the Azra'il have changed, and I can't say they really improved. The Feuerbach had lost his Assault Pistol, so neither of the two presented in the Profile document is any good up close. Also, the two presented profiles mean that a full link of 3 Azra'ils is going to eat 6 SWC, a prohibitive cost IMO.
With Silhouette increase they lost the ability to play mind games with Hafza (who can still link in, but can no longer Holoproject as Azra'il, I suppose -due to Silhouette difference). They also became more difficult to get in Cover, and more difficult to maneuver in urban terrain (they no longer can negotiate Narrow Access points).
They certainly gained in one area, Armor. But I can not say I consider it a good trade.
Point cost... remained largely unchanged. I have yet to see the new writeup for the Feuerbach weapon - in 2ed, it wasn't really that impressive...
All in all, the unit seems to be intended for combat in open areas - where they can use the long range of their weapons, and their lack of ability in negotiating tight passages doesn't make a problem.
Seems they will be relegated to a specialised role, and replaced by Janissaries as a general application HI for QK.
Seems the Azra'il fill into the same "fire support HI" role as the Yan Huo Invincibles.
The Yan Huo get similar profile (though with +3 CC and +1 BS, while Azra'ils have +1 WIP), 2 SWC per model, and cost 53 points for a MultiHMG variant, +15 comapred to Azrail armed with ordinary HMG.
They also get a HMC for 54pts, and dual Missile Launcher for 52pts. Which actually makes me a bit jealous.
They're also availability 2 in vanilla, though not available at all in any sectorial, so as for now they cannot link.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
Note Azra'il being a Yan Huo like model now.. S5. Losing out on his Spitfire and AP+Panzerfaust profiles.. :/ I don't know what to expect, but this looks like a new unit hiding behind a old name. ARM5 as well..
I'm a bit bumped out.. I usually used my Azra'ils as Hafza covers. That Feuerbach scared many away.. now, it's something else, as they can't be used in synergy again.
Kaplan are still mighty good and cheap.
We also should revision the Odalisque/Sekban discussion. A 0SWC Haris is tempting, as is the HRL-discount in N3. I might take a Sekban Haris instead of Odalisque when it comes to Tohaa.. Also, the amount of Shock that's introduced also makes the Odas more of a risk.
Djanbazans.. yeah.. always been one of my favorite QK units. Pretty much the same..
al Hawwa still shines! ^^ And Daylami got cheaper.. that's something! Loved the cheap ARO options they brought, especially with surprise shotting that Panzerfaust.
Liking the flavourful introduction, btw
Like a real Mujahideen conclave.
I'm a bit bumped out.. I usually used my Azra'ils as Hafza covers. That Feuerbach scared many away.. now, it's something else, as they can't be used in synergy again.
Kaplan are still mighty good and cheap.
We also should revision the Odalisque/Sekban discussion. A 0SWC Haris is tempting, as is the HRL-discount in N3. I might take a Sekban Haris instead of Odalisque when it comes to Tohaa.. Also, the amount of Shock that's introduced also makes the Odas more of a risk.
Djanbazans.. yeah.. always been one of my favorite QK units. Pretty much the same..
al Hawwa still shines! ^^ And Daylami got cheaper.. that's something! Loved the cheap ARO options they brought, especially with surprise shotting that Panzerfaust.
Liking the flavourful introduction, btw
Like a real Mujahideen conclave.
Oh, I would prefer not to be identified with the mudjahedeen though I'm gathering headgear to look appropriately when playing Infinity. A red bandana for Corregidor, a tubeteika that will probably do for Bahram (though I guess it would be more appropriate for the Khanate), and recently ordered myself a fez for my favourite Qapu Khalqi. Nothing speaks "Turkish Empire" like a fez! 
On to the topic - yes, the al'Hawwa do shine indeed! At least the shotgunners, I'm still a bit unsure about the Sniper.
Sekban vs. the Odalisques - it'll require some testing.
But Druze I still consider very, very meh.
though I'm gathering headgear to look appropriately when playing Infinity. A red bandana for Corregidor, a tubeteika that will probably do for Bahram (though I guess it would be more appropriate for the Khanate), and recently ordered myself a fez for my favourite Qapu Khalqi. Nothing speaks "Turkish Empire" like a fez! On to the topic - yes, the al'Hawwa do shine indeed! At least the shotgunners, I'm still a bit unsure about the Sniper.
Sekban vs. the Odalisques - it'll require some testing.
But Druze I still consider very, very meh.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
Silhouette change is likely to be a typo, as is losing the other profiles. Except for the Spitfire, I'm pretty sure that it will be an HMG. Interesting and flavourful now - ARM5 but 4-2 MOV fits with their old-fashioned power armour designed to terrify. The Ahl Fassads however have mysteriously gained an AP Rifle + Light Panzerfaust. Database error?
I was hoping that Odas would stay the same price, bar the BSG but it seems that the good ladies can't be kept down and got crazy cheap with the SMG+Contender. B1 and B2 weapons appear to have been heavily discounted.
I was hoping that Odas would stay the same price, bar the BSG but it seems that the good ladies can't be kept down and got crazy cheap with the SMG+Contender. B1 and B2 weapons appear to have been heavily discounted.
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Lampyridae - Posts: 699
- Joined: February 2nd, 2013, 10:41 am
- Location: South Africa
- Has liked: 137 times
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Oh, I'd love to see it a typo, but untill we get it confirmed otherwise, I'm afraid these are the official profiles.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
I sure hope so. I suppose I can use my Azraíl Pfaust as an Ahl Fassed (the intention I guess) but damn.
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Lampyridae - Posts: 699
- Joined: February 2nd, 2013, 10:41 am
- Location: South Africa
- Has liked: 137 times
- Been liked: 61 times
What about Hassassins? I've seen multiple voices that dismiss their viability now, but from what I see most of them got slightly better or are still the same. And I don't see a Religious as a liability.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but shouldn't we just take the warning labels off everything and let the problem deal with itself?
Errhile wrote:Oh, I would prefer not to be identified with the mudjahedeen
On to the topic - yes, the al'Hawwa do shine indeed! At least the shotgunners, I'm still a bit unsure about the Sniper.
Sekban vs. the Odalisques - it'll require some testing.
But Druze I still consider very, very meh.
Haha, no offense meant!
I figured at least the Hassassin Bahram could be considered engaged in jihad (which is the original meaning of the word mujahideen), against people's jahiliyyah of the Quest for Knowledge. But I guess the term has too many negative connotations in this day and age. Fezzes are cool, I learned that from the 11th Doctor Who. Don't forget the fez was worn outside of Turkey as well
I somewhere have a photo of Hasan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, wearing a fez as a timely fashion. He was an Egyptian Sufi.OT:
I agree on the Druze.. still not sure about them..
I think Sekban/Oda is meta depended. Lots of Tohaa will favour the fire templates of the Sekban, and running lots of shock ammo wielding troops isn't favourable for the Odas, as one of their biggest strengths is the NWI.
Here's hoping for another al Hawwa sculpt to avoid running clones.
On the other hand.. the Azrail.. I find it really weird.. it wasn't included in the earlier announcement.. it has changed considerably, losing a profile, changing silhouette size. I don't really know what to think of it.. an arty-farty change on CB's part? These kinds of things are giving me the feel CB hasn't really stepped up yet to their new international role in the wargame world. And that is worrisome, to say the least.
Stiopa wrote:What about Hassassins? I've seen multiple voices that dismiss their viability now, but from what I see most of them got slightly better or are still the same. And I don't see a Religious as a liability.
In what way? I haven't read up (or missed) on the threads discussing the Hassassins.
Regarding Hassassins, I'm mostly disappointed seeing how Muyibs and Govads turned out very, very similar. In fact, Govads have more typical LI loadouts (instead of being festooned with gear like Muyibs), Veteran L1, and MSV L1, while being slightly cheaper.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
Errhile wrote:Regarding Hassassins, I'm mostly disappointed seeing how Muyibs and Govads turned out very, very similar. In fact, Govads have more typical LI loadouts (instead of being festooned with gear like Muyibs), Veteran L1, and MSV L1, while being slightly cheaper.
Sounds like another Sekban/Muyyib discussion coming up. No real role within the sectorial. I expected a Ghulam replacement to be honest. From all the changes, the Hassassins missed out on a lot.
I'll be in the corner, hogging the shisha.
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Mistake Not - Posts: 191
- Joined: July 16th, 2014, 7:28 pm
- Has liked: 9 times
- Been liked: 35 times
Scorch wrote:Sounds like another Sekban/Muyyib discussion coming up. No real role within the sectorial. I expected a Ghulam replacement to be honest. From all the changes, the Hassassins missed out on a lot.
So did I, but then again, Haqq line infantry tends to be noticeably more expensive than other (human) factions'. Wth basic Ghulams and (light) Naffatuns now at 12pts, it would be difficult to make a Hassassin-specific line infantry, and not get into either Ghulam Copycat or "too expensive for an order monkey" unit.
Look where we've got to with Govads. Elite LI statline (including BTS 3), Religious, Veteran L1, MSV L1 and we hit 21pts with the standard Rifle+Light Shotgun. And Line Infantry's option pack - HMG, ML, Hacking Device, Sniper Rifle. Really, I find the Govads to be competing with the cheaper Ghulams. MSV L1 is just an icing on the cake (given the Bahram had no MSV before).
I really wonder what was the CB's idea behind them. Apart from making a 5-man-strong basic infantry link for the Bahram (for that, they could've just upped the AVA of Ghulam).
But I really doubt we'd be told that...
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
Govads get fancy versatile skills and equipment, Muyibs have V:Dogged. One is more defensive, the other more aggressive.
*retreats back into the clouds of smoke
*retreats back into the clouds of smoke
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Mistake Not - Posts: 191
- Joined: July 16th, 2014, 7:28 pm
- Has liked: 9 times
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Hmm... it is a point. I wouldn't call the Govads "defensive", but Muyibs Dogged, being now unrevokable (can't heal a trooper who reamined active thanks to Dogged) makes them certainlymore like "I'm going down, and I'm intending to take as many of you, as I can, with me".
I wonder if having activated Dogged does still break the model off the Link Team.
I wonder if having activated Dogged does still break the model off the Link Team.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
We'll have to wait on the other PDF that "totally doesn't invalidate CP" at all to further explain I guess.
ANIMATION INTENSIFIES
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Hero of Man - Posts: 877
- Joined: July 31st, 2013, 6:27 pm
- Has liked: 53 times
- Been liked: 54 times
And yoyu're right again.
Sorry to observe that, but I'm afraid CB pulled that 2ed to N3 trainsition in a somewhat shoddy way...
Sorry to observe that, but I'm afraid CB pulled that 2ed to N3 trainsition in a somewhat shoddy way...
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
Yeah, we were pointing it out on official forums for a few weeks now, getting much flak in return 
Activating Dogged shouldn't take a model out of the link, it's just a special unconscious state and not a different ARO/skill than the rest. Odalisques with activated NWI don't fall out of links too, IIRC.
Activating Dogged shouldn't take a model out of the link, it's just a special unconscious state and not a different ARO/skill than the rest. Odalisques with activated NWI don't fall out of links too, IIRC.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but shouldn't we just take the warning labels off everything and let the problem deal with itself?
Yes, but it is specifically said in the rules that you can heal a model in NWI, yet can't one who had Dogged engaged.
And in 2ed, using Dogged forced one out of the Link.
And in 2ed, using Dogged forced one out of the Link.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
In N2 at least Dogged doctors could attempt to heal themselves. This is no longer possible.
I was deeply saddened that Druze hacker got stuck with an assault hacking device.
Why would I want that over having access to support ware on a 4-2 non-infiltrating non-combat drop medium infantry model?
Why would I want that over having access to support ware on a 4-2 non-infiltrating non-combat drop medium infantry model?
- ZombieCrab
- Posts: 5
- Joined: January 13th, 2015, 4:20 pm
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No idea. Otherwise than to have an Assault deck on anyone else than al'Hawwa, perhaps. We're well enough-stocked with regluar Hacking Devices, apparently (which, actually, means Ghulam and Djanbazan hackers).
Hacking doesn't seem to be QK forte. But I guess we can live with it.
Hacking doesn't seem to be QK forte. But I guess we can live with it.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
Mostly I just wanted to be able to leave the Ghulam hacker home on occasion.
If I wanted to have an assault hacker why wouldn't I take the Al'Hawwa?
If I wanted to have an assault hacker why wouldn't I take the Al'Hawwa?
- ZombieCrab
- Posts: 5
- Joined: January 13th, 2015, 4:20 pm
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Hey, don't look at me, I don't know any better than you...
On the other hand, I wonder why would you want a Druze hacker at all (okay, any Druze... I really don't see a role for them to fill, especially since we got Sekban and Djanbazan with ARM 3 too). Unless he had a Hacking Device nobody else in QK has access to. Otherwise, I agree - al'Hawwa is a great assault hacker, has all the trimmings needed for the job plus excellent WIP. And hardly any extra fat one could wish to skim off them.
As for standrad Hackers, you have a choice. If not Ghulam, then Djanbazan (pay for extras like MSV, Regeneration and better combat stats) or Al'waziri (for on-a-budget hacker with only 1 WIP less).
One more thing I noticed: the Fiday have been hit pretty hard by the changes. They've lost EXP CCW from their profiles, leaving only single DA variant. They lost the ability to scavenge weapons form the battlefield (in 1ed & 2ed included into Impersonation, now a separate skill). If shooting, they gain Surprise Shot - but they can't get Camo modifier (well, they're not Camo). In N2 this was of little consequence, in N3 it becomes important...
On the other hand, I wonder why would you want a Druze hacker at all (okay, any Druze... I really don't see a role for them to fill, especially since we got Sekban and Djanbazan with ARM 3 too). Unless he had a Hacking Device nobody else in QK has access to. Otherwise, I agree - al'Hawwa is a great assault hacker, has all the trimmings needed for the job plus excellent WIP. And hardly any extra fat one could wish to skim off them.
As for standrad Hackers, you have a choice. If not Ghulam, then Djanbazan (pay for extras like MSV, Regeneration and better combat stats) or Al'waziri (for on-a-budget hacker with only 1 WIP less).
One more thing I noticed: the Fiday have been hit pretty hard by the changes. They've lost EXP CCW from their profiles, leaving only single DA variant. They lost the ability to scavenge weapons form the battlefield (in 1ed & 2ed included into Impersonation, now a separate skill). If shooting, they gain Surprise Shot - but they can't get Camo modifier (well, they're not Camo). In N2 this was of little consequence, in N3 it becomes important...
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
I love the models and X-visors are functional. A Druze on suppression Fire is ok. The 0 SWC cost for the DEP is handy and another source of a scary shot for a coordinated order.
The LGL model is hitting on 15s out to 24 inches if you manage to target the model first. 6s if you can't that is a better shot than 2s from the Ghulam in the same situation.
Overall they are not profiles that blow your socks off but they have some postives that you can't get in Qapu Khalki anywhere else. Combine that with looking sweet and I want to find places to shove them in even if it might not be optimal.
The LGL model is hitting on 15s out to 24 inches if you manage to target the model first. 6s if you can't that is a better shot than 2s from the Ghulam in the same situation.
Overall they are not profiles that blow your socks off but they have some postives that you can't get in Qapu Khalki anywhere else. Combine that with looking sweet and I want to find places to shove them in even if it might not be optimal.
- ZombieCrab
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34 posts
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