Hi guys,
new player here and played two games of infinity now with my Haqqislam and I'm really enjoying it.
I've read through the two sectorial tactica articles and they seem great and have really helped give me an idea of what the units do.
I recently bought the new boxed set of kum motorised troops however and I can't for the life of me see anywhere that talks about them, their strengths / weaknesses or how to use them.
I am a little daunted as they're impetuous and very different to the other bits I've got so far for my small collection.
Does anyone have any hints on how to use them or what lists they might work well with?
For reference this is the list of figures I currently own that I could pull from:
Janissary with AP Rifle
Djanbizan HMG
Djanibazan Sniper
Ragik HMG
Ragik Rifle
Hassassin Fiday
Hanzakut Sniper
Naffutun LFT
2 Halqa
3 Ghulam Rifle
Ghulam Sniper
Ghulam Hacker
Ghulam Missile
Ghulam HMG
Ghulam Doctor
Ghulam Engineer
2 x Nasmat
Has anyone used Kum Bikers?
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- StokieRich
- Posts: 19
- Joined: October 13th, 2014, 2:32 pm
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Well, Kum Bikers are available in vanilla Haqqislam only (and the future Ghazbar Khanate Sectorial Army, of course), so neither of the sectorial-specific tactical analysis articles we have on the forum covers them- for the very reason that they are not available to these sectorials.
I haven't used them either (again - not available for my armies), but I guess I can highlight them for you.
First, Kum are Impetous. Which means you will have to either move them full MOV (8") toward the closest enemy first thing in your turn, or waste an Order to keep them from doing that. Therefore make their Impetousness a part of your plan.
Then, they are Irregular, meaning they don't contribute to the Order Pool. Effectively, you will have two Orders to spend solely on each of them (one Impetous, the other Irregular), but no order generated by them to spend on the rest of your Combat Group.
A general rule of thumb in Infinity says you want no less than 8 Regular Orders on the table at the start of the game. Sure, this rule is not set in stone, but in general, it does make sense.
Which, in turn, means you want no more than 2 Kum (or other models that do not contribute to Order Pool) in any Combat Group. I'd say - for starters, keep down to 1 Kum biker.
Then, the statline:
1. MOV. While on their bikes, Kum (along with other bikers) are the fastest thing on an Infinity battlefield. MOV 8-6 means they can move (going full-throttle) up to 14" per Order. Or up to 8" and do something else, preferably attack.
2. Close Combat. 18 is high, so sometimes it may be an option. Usually, however, it is better to just shoot things up.
3. Ballistic Skill. Well, they're average in that department, but usually it doesn't really matter.
4. Physical. Very good, so if they hit somebody in CC, they hit hard. However, being bikers, they take a big penalty to Dodge.
5. Willpower. Excellent, even by Haqqislam standards. You can use them to Discover Camouflaged models.
6. Armor - rather limited, but still better than nothing. Do not expect your Kum to withstand massed firepower.
7. Biotechnological Shileding - none. Like it was any news...
8. Wounds - standard, one - but mind their Dogged skill.
As for skills & equipment:
1. Motorcycle. While it can't fit into narrow passages (so adequate choice of the route is essential... you can of course dismount, but doing so means losing a big advantage of fast movement, so think it over well!), it is fast like a bat out of hell. It will carry your bikers to wherever you need them in very, very few orders. Plus, it has a smoke launcher buildt in, allowing you to lay smoke screens to portect your troops when moving.
2. Dogged. First, it grants you Valour L1: Courage - a Kum won't retreat under fire unless you want him to (automatically pass any Guts test, if the player wishes so). Second, Dogged itself means that an ARO hit, even a lucky Critical, won't stop the Kum - a wounded Dogged model remains operational as long as you keep spending Orders on him (or he gets another wound). Sure, he dies afterwards, but (let's hope) not before having taken his target down.
Then, we have the profiles, of which the Chainrifle is definitely the most popular (since it is considered to be the most useful).
So, the bloke costs you 11 pts - that's almost free. He brings in a large Direct Template Weapon. He has smoke grenades (in addition to the smoke LGL welded to his bike). He's fast, and a stray bullet ain't gonna stop him.
What to do with this buddy?
Place him appropriately and let him get to the juiciest, softest, most ripe target around. Your opponent has a Link Team of 1-wound models, like his Light Infantry Order Monkeys? That's just a smorgasboard of targets. A lone specialist, like a Doc or Hacker? Excellent, he won't even know what hit him. Use terrain and - when needed - smoke to cover your advance (just mind these pesky MSV L2+ models). Get to the targets, blast them - and there is a big chance you are going to kill way more points than the Kum's worth. Rinse, repeat. You bought a bullet in the process? Doesn't really matter. Just press on and go down in the blaze of glory, like a proper Kum Rider should.
A Kum's mobility is also a godsend if you have an objective to fulfill on the other side of the battlefield.
And when the Kum are down...?
Well, there is a good chance they've taken a lot of enemies with them, and your opponent's heavy hitters are now Order-starved. Still, your force is pretty fresh (Irregular Order of the Kum himself was never a part of your Order Reserve).
Do not, however, send Kum to fight Heavy Infantry or TAGs. He isn't adequately equipped - and he will die in vain.
I haven't used them either (again - not available for my armies), but I guess I can highlight them for you.
First, Kum are Impetous. Which means you will have to either move them full MOV (8") toward the closest enemy first thing in your turn, or waste an Order to keep them from doing that. Therefore make their Impetousness a part of your plan.
Then, they are Irregular, meaning they don't contribute to the Order Pool. Effectively, you will have two Orders to spend solely on each of them (one Impetous, the other Irregular), but no order generated by them to spend on the rest of your Combat Group.
A general rule of thumb in Infinity says you want no less than 8 Regular Orders on the table at the start of the game. Sure, this rule is not set in stone, but in general, it does make sense.
Which, in turn, means you want no more than 2 Kum (or other models that do not contribute to Order Pool) in any Combat Group. I'd say - for starters, keep down to 1 Kum biker.
Then, the statline:
1. MOV. While on their bikes, Kum (along with other bikers) are the fastest thing on an Infinity battlefield. MOV 8-6 means they can move (going full-throttle) up to 14" per Order. Or up to 8" and do something else, preferably attack.
2. Close Combat. 18 is high, so sometimes it may be an option. Usually, however, it is better to just shoot things up.
3. Ballistic Skill. Well, they're average in that department, but usually it doesn't really matter.
4. Physical. Very good, so if they hit somebody in CC, they hit hard. However, being bikers, they take a big penalty to Dodge.
5. Willpower. Excellent, even by Haqqislam standards. You can use them to Discover Camouflaged models.
6. Armor - rather limited, but still better than nothing. Do not expect your Kum to withstand massed firepower.
7. Biotechnological Shileding - none. Like it was any news...
8. Wounds - standard, one - but mind their Dogged skill.
As for skills & equipment:
1. Motorcycle. While it can't fit into narrow passages (so adequate choice of the route is essential... you can of course dismount, but doing so means losing a big advantage of fast movement, so think it over well!), it is fast like a bat out of hell. It will carry your bikers to wherever you need them in very, very few orders. Plus, it has a smoke launcher buildt in, allowing you to lay smoke screens to portect your troops when moving.
2. Dogged. First, it grants you Valour L1: Courage - a Kum won't retreat under fire unless you want him to (automatically pass any Guts test, if the player wishes so). Second, Dogged itself means that an ARO hit, even a lucky Critical, won't stop the Kum - a wounded Dogged model remains operational as long as you keep spending Orders on him (or he gets another wound). Sure, he dies afterwards, but (let's hope) not before having taken his target down.
Then, we have the profiles, of which the Chainrifle is definitely the most popular (since it is considered to be the most useful).
So, the bloke costs you 11 pts - that's almost free. He brings in a large Direct Template Weapon. He has smoke grenades (in addition to the smoke LGL welded to his bike). He's fast, and a stray bullet ain't gonna stop him.
What to do with this buddy?
Place him appropriately and let him get to the juiciest, softest, most ripe target around. Your opponent has a Link Team of 1-wound models, like his Light Infantry Order Monkeys? That's just a smorgasboard of targets. A lone specialist, like a Doc or Hacker? Excellent, he won't even know what hit him. Use terrain and - when needed - smoke to cover your advance (just mind these pesky MSV L2+ models). Get to the targets, blast them - and there is a big chance you are going to kill way more points than the Kum's worth. Rinse, repeat. You bought a bullet in the process? Doesn't really matter. Just press on and go down in the blaze of glory, like a proper Kum Rider should.
A Kum's mobility is also a godsend if you have an objective to fulfill on the other side of the battlefield.
And when the Kum are down...?
Well, there is a good chance they've taken a lot of enemies with them, and your opponent's heavy hitters are now Order-starved. Still, your force is pretty fresh (Irregular Order of the Kum himself was never a part of your Order Reserve).
Do not, however, send Kum to fight Heavy Infantry or TAGs. He isn't adequately equipped - and he will die in vain.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That's fantastic thanks Errhile, more than I hoped for!
One question I did have is whether I can use the smoke and then move his impetuous order?
So Short action smoke / short action move in that order to provide smoke for his movement?
One question I did have is whether I can use the smoke and then move his impetuous order?
So Short action smoke / short action move in that order to provide smoke for his movement?
- StokieRich
- Posts: 19
- Joined: October 13th, 2014, 2:32 pm
- Has liked: 2 times
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Nope, must have to be the other way around
first short order is always move , but both short orders happen at the same time, so throwing down smoke doesn't grant you cover before the END of the order anyway, even if you're not impetuous and do it in this order
first short order is always move , but both short orders happen at the same time, so throwing down smoke doesn't grant you cover before the END of the order anyway, even if you're not impetuous and do it in this order
Impetuous order has to be done first.
In 3rd ed, impetuous has its own phase in the turn - and it's before other orders are spent.
In 3rd ed, impetuous has its own phase in the turn - and it's before other orders are spent.
That's a question on the very basics of Infinity mechanics. And the answer is: not exactly that way.
You see, if you declare two short skills in an Order, they happen simultaneously.
Move + Move, you just speed away.
Move + Shoot, you run / drive a bit slower, shooting while moving.
So, you can declare an Impetous Order: Move (8" towards the nearest enemy model) + Shoot: Smoke Grenade Launcher (or hand-thrown Smoke Grenade). This would mean you ride from your staring point shooting (or throwing) smoke on the move.
You can't use smoke and start moving once a smoke screen is estabilished - not with an Impetous Order. Shall you want such an effect, you'd have to do like that:
1. Spend 1st Order (preferably Kum's own Irregular Order) to cancel his Impetous Order.
2. Spend 2nd Order (from your Order Pool this time) to shoot Smoke.
3. Spend 3rd Order (again Order Pool) to move out.
That's a lot of Orders. But this is the cost of being safe.
You can, however, go Impetous Order: Move + Smoke - should anyone see you, your Smoke attack becomes a Face to Face roll against his ARO: Shoot, assuming the smoke screen is intended to block the Line of Sight between you and him (and assuming he doesn't pack a MAV L2+).
I hope it is more clear now
Edit: as Chromedog says, in N3 it is going to look a bit different - what I wrote was applicable to 2ed Infinity.
You see, if you declare two short skills in an Order, they happen simultaneously.
Move + Move, you just speed away.
Move + Shoot, you run / drive a bit slower, shooting while moving.
So, you can declare an Impetous Order: Move (8" towards the nearest enemy model) + Shoot: Smoke Grenade Launcher (or hand-thrown Smoke Grenade). This would mean you ride from your staring point shooting (or throwing) smoke on the move.
You can't use smoke and start moving once a smoke screen is estabilished - not with an Impetous Order. Shall you want such an effect, you'd have to do like that:
1. Spend 1st Order (preferably Kum's own Irregular Order) to cancel his Impetous Order.
2. Spend 2nd Order (from your Order Pool this time) to shoot Smoke.
3. Spend 3rd Order (again Order Pool) to move out.
That's a lot of Orders. But this is the cost of being safe.
You can, however, go Impetous Order: Move + Smoke - should anyone see you, your Smoke attack becomes a Face to Face roll against his ARO: Shoot, assuming the smoke screen is intended to block the Line of Sight between you and him (and assuming he doesn't pack a MAV L2+).
I hope it is more clear now
Edit: as Chromedog says, in N3 it is going to look a bit different - what I wrote was applicable to 2ed Infinity.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
Thanks guys, that's very helpful
- StokieRich
- Posts: 19
- Joined: October 13th, 2014, 2:32 pm
- Has liked: 2 times
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The only part of Errhile's analysis I disagree with is the notion that you should only use 1. One is good, but 2 is better. I've witnessed good experiences with up to 4 (assuming you have a full 10 order group).
Here's the thing about very good warband troops (Highlanders, Monks, and Kum bikers). They're cheap so you tend to think of them as disposable, and they're irregular so you tend to think you shouldn't have too many of them. That thinking is generally wrong. They are so good that they become your Rambo troops. They're basically 11-point Tags. The impetuous order is the dangerous one, since a low smoke grenade roll can get you killed by an ARO. That's why you want at least 2 so that you can coordinate the orders...ensuring that an unlucky roll will only result in one wound. Then you use the irregular orders on smoke grenade launchers (not the hand grenades) to create a path of smoke. Now you concentrate the rest of your orders on a single Kum, moving him up the path of smoke you made to chain rifle a big juicy target like a link team. That's the Rambo tactic.
Kum are also good for dealing with infiltrating camo. In this instance, you probably don't want to Rambo a single kum. Instead you want to activate them one at a time (after coordinating their impetuous orders). That's because if they fail any intuitive shot rolls you just want to move on to the next one (since they can only fail once). Basically you first want to try and discover the camo marker from long-ish range. If it reveals and ARO's, you use your second skill to throw smoke on yourself for a face to face. If you fail to discover, you use your smoke grenade launcher to land a smoke cloud on the marker. Then on your next order you drive up and try to intuitive shot the marker. If you fail again, move on to the next Kum and do the same thing. Just don't get within small template range with anything in case it's a mine.
As Errhile said, stay away from very hard targets like TAGs; Rambo against their order pool instead, using smoke to prevent the TAG from spotting you and intuitive shooting through the smoke if necessary. The other thing that Kum don't really have a counter to is MSV2. Anything that can ARO through your smoke is gonna kill your Kum.
Overall, though, the combination of high WIP, dogged, 8-6 move, and chain rifle makes the Kum very terrifying.
Here's the thing about very good warband troops (Highlanders, Monks, and Kum bikers). They're cheap so you tend to think of them as disposable, and they're irregular so you tend to think you shouldn't have too many of them. That thinking is generally wrong. They are so good that they become your Rambo troops. They're basically 11-point Tags. The impetuous order is the dangerous one, since a low smoke grenade roll can get you killed by an ARO. That's why you want at least 2 so that you can coordinate the orders...ensuring that an unlucky roll will only result in one wound. Then you use the irregular orders on smoke grenade launchers (not the hand grenades) to create a path of smoke. Now you concentrate the rest of your orders on a single Kum, moving him up the path of smoke you made to chain rifle a big juicy target like a link team. That's the Rambo tactic.
Kum are also good for dealing with infiltrating camo. In this instance, you probably don't want to Rambo a single kum. Instead you want to activate them one at a time (after coordinating their impetuous orders). That's because if they fail any intuitive shot rolls you just want to move on to the next one (since they can only fail once). Basically you first want to try and discover the camo marker from long-ish range. If it reveals and ARO's, you use your second skill to throw smoke on yourself for a face to face. If you fail to discover, you use your smoke grenade launcher to land a smoke cloud on the marker. Then on your next order you drive up and try to intuitive shot the marker. If you fail again, move on to the next Kum and do the same thing. Just don't get within small template range with anything in case it's a mine.
As Errhile said, stay away from very hard targets like TAGs; Rambo against their order pool instead, using smoke to prevent the TAG from spotting you and intuitive shooting through the smoke if necessary. The other thing that Kum don't really have a counter to is MSV2. Anything that can ARO through your smoke is gonna kill your Kum.
Overall, though, the combination of high WIP, dogged, 8-6 move, and chain rifle makes the Kum very terrifying.
Pretty sure irregular troops can't use coordinated orders. At least in N2.
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deepseacaptain - Posts: 2
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deepseacaptain wrote:Pretty sure irregular troops can't use coordinated orders. At least in N2.
It's the impetuous orders that you want to coordinate, not the irregular ones. You can use an entire irregular order to spec shot a grenade, or shoot first and then move, so they're much safer. You can't do that with an impetuous order.
I honestly have no idea if you can coordinate irregular orders; I do know you can coordinate impetuous ones:
From the wiki http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Coordinated_Order: "You can use Impetuous Orders to perform Coordinated Orders. "
I just read further on that page that I linked, and near the bottom it says you can coordinate irregular orders. The only restriction is that all the coordinated figures must be of the same type (irregular or regular) and in the same combat group. So you couldn't coordinate a Kum and a Muyib, for example (but you could coordinate a Kum and a Hunzakut...though I'm not sure why you'd want to
)Cool! Thanks for explaining it all clearly.
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deepseacaptain - Posts: 2
- Joined: July 15th, 2014, 3:37 am
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deepseacaptain wrote:Pretty sure irregular troops can't use coordinated orders. At least in N2.
Oh, they can. More precisely, all the troops included in a Coordinated Order must have the same Instruction. So you can coordinate the Impetuous order, and then coordinate their Irregular order, too. They just can't be coordinated with a Regular trooper.
You can Coordinate a maximum of 4 miniatures. Coordinated Orders must be declared in unison. You can only Coordinate figures possessing the same type of training (Regular/Irregular) and belonging to the same Combat Group. Miniatures participating in a Coordinated Order do not need to be at any given distance from each other.
And I agree with SgtHulka, two bikers are better than 1. You want to use a coordinated Impetuous order ideally to force your opponent to deal with a 2-on-1 situation, so at least one rider is getting a Normal roll to kill the bad guy (I usually think with Aragotos, so I have combirifles and spitfires in mind, not chain rifles).
Though since your bikers have smoke grenades and launchers, I'd probably make the Impetuous order move+smoke and the Irregular order move+shoot.
“I'm curious, son. When has 'This might be a trap' ever stopped you?”
“Stopped? Never. Slowed me down while I load the guns? Every time.”
-Schlock Mercenary, 22 July 2013.
“Stopped? Never. Slowed me down while I load the guns? Every time.”
-Schlock Mercenary, 22 July 2013.
Do you guys think the Kum would be too much for a 150 demo? Basically the starter box + 2 Kum Bikers? The Kum are very good looking models with a high "coolness" factor that attracts players.
Haqqislam | 8 models
________________________________________________________
Ghulam Lieutenant (13|0)
Ghulam Rifle (13|0)
Ghulam HMG (21|1)
Naffatun LFT (10|0)
Janissary AP Rifle (45|0)
Hunzakut Sniper (25|0.5)
Kum Chain (11|0)
Kum Chain (11|0)
________________________________________________________
149/300 points | 1.5/6 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox
: http://goo.gl/5IwbYL
Haqqislam | 8 models________________________________________________________
Ghulam Lieutenant (13|0) Ghulam Rifle (13|0) Ghulam HMG (21|1) Naffatun LFT (10|0) Janissary AP Rifle (45|0) Hunzakut Sniper (25|0.5) Kum Chain (11|0) Kum Chain (11|0)________________________________________________________
149/300 points | 1.5/6 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox
: http://goo.gl/5IwbYLDefine "a demo". If you want to play the game against novice players with a 150pts list, Kum are going to be very brutal.
In a straight game - you have just 5 Regular Orders. Which is very, very low.
In a straight game - you have just 5 Regular Orders. Which is very, very low.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
A demo for new players, with armies provided by me.
I'll have a CA army, for demos. Merovingian RRF will be my main army.
My Haqqislam army is mainly for Kum Bikers and eventually the new Maghariba Guard TAG model. I don't plan on expanding them beyond just enough units to support those, and I'm trying to save money by sticking to starter boxes.
So, I guess I'll drop the bikers in this demo list and just fill the army with Ghulam. But, Kum Bikers are such a cool model.
I'll have a CA army, for demos. Merovingian RRF will be my main army.
My Haqqislam army is mainly for Kum Bikers and eventually the new Maghariba Guard TAG model. I don't plan on expanding them beyond just enough units to support those, and I'm trying to save money by sticking to starter boxes.
So, I guess I'll drop the bikers in this demo list and just fill the army with Ghulam. But, Kum Bikers are such a cool model.
One Kum would be perfectly fine to show up what they're about. Two are overkill.
Also, get in more Orders in that list. 3 Irregulars (and 2 of them Impetous) in an 8 model list is definitely not good.
Also, get in more Orders in that list. 3 Irregulars (and 2 of them Impetous) in an 8 model list is definitely not good.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
I have 4 of the old models and I have just bought 2 of the new ones and plan to get 2 more plus Penny on her chopper and Kasym to make 6 total. At 11 points they are pretty cheap. I would usually put 2 or 3 in one combat group and the 3rd or 4th in it's own group. the loner would act as a distraction laying down smoke first and risking AROs to cover the advance of the others. The others would advance with coordinated orders. With smoke and Dogged they could get pretty far into enemy territory and do some damage. I'm not sure f Chain Rifles will be as deadly in N3 due to it being easier to dodge the template but It would be fun to try out the Boarding Shotgun load out with it's new bonuses. I do hope there is a model for this, if not maybe Penny can have one in a saddle bag.
17 posts
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