Have you tried playing a game where players activate one model (unit) alternatively instead of doing UGO-IGO with all their models?
Would this work for INFINITY?
What problems do you see with that?
Alternating activations ?
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I've thought of doing this, but haven't given it a try yet. It could be interesting given that Infinity is already about the whole, "Its always your turn!" aspect. How would wanting to spend multiple orders work, though?
Stop terrorizing my cheese!
ARCangel wrote:I've thought of doing this, but haven't given it a try yet. It could be interesting given that Infinity is already about the whole, "Its always your turn!" aspect. How would wanting to spend multiple orders work, though?
Good question!
To keep it simple a player could spend as many orders as he wants during a single activation of a model. That is how I would play it at first and see how it affects the game play and list building. I wouldn't want to change several things at the same time. Changing too many variables is not good.
This is how Malifaux is played. However, instead of spending any number of orders, a unit has a certain number of actions (Action Points) per activation. There are some ways for some units to increase their actions too.
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red harvest - Posts: 364
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Coleslaw (the norwegian warcor) suggested trying the bolt action method, ie take all orders, but them in a bag, then draw one order, if the player the order belongs to wants to, he gets to activate a unit, if not, he gets to save it. Then draw the next one. I am set to try this as soon as i can, sounds fun.
One thing I could see happening in this is high orders would become even more valuable, as getting a whole bunch of uninterrupted actions at the end of a turn would be very valuable. There would need to be some sort of pass system in place, probably impacted by skills like Strategos and Advanced Command
there is very elegant mechanic in SAGA in form of Fatigue tokens
each and every activation of a unit after the first one exhausts unit and ads Fatigue tokens to it
if you reach Fatigue limit for a unit (the more trained units have higher limits) it cannot be activated
and of course you can reduce Fatigue in different ways:
- you can activate a unit to rest (do nothing) to remove 1 Fatigue
- your opponent can spend Fatigue tokens on you units to debuff them or to buff his own
- certain circumstances in form of special rules can manipulate with Fatigue tokens
Personally, I want to give it a try to limit doing a mission with one-two superstar units
each and every activation of a unit after the first one exhausts unit and ads Fatigue tokens to it
if you reach Fatigue limit for a unit (the more trained units have higher limits) it cannot be activated
and of course you can reduce Fatigue in different ways:
- you can activate a unit to rest (do nothing) to remove 1 Fatigue
- your opponent can spend Fatigue tokens on you units to debuff them or to buff his own
- certain circumstances in form of special rules can manipulate with Fatigue tokens
Personally, I want to give it a try to limit doing a mission with one-two superstar units
M2Cat wrote:there is very elegant mechanic in SAGA in form of Fatigue tokens
each and every activation of a unit after the first one exhausts unit and ads Fatigue tokens to it
if you reach Fatigue limit for a unit (the more trained units have higher limits) it cannot be activated
and of course you can reduce Fatigue in different ways:
- you can activate a unit to rest (do nothing) to remove 1 Fatigue
- your opponent can spend Fatigue tokens on you units to debuff them or to buff his own
- certain circumstances in form of special rules can manipulate with Fatigue tokens
Personally, I want to give it a try to limit doing a mission with one-two superstar units
I play SAGA and Fatigue is indeed a cool mechanic. This could work. Keeps us informed of your play test !
I've been playing (in my mind) with the idea of using a variant of the bolt action order draw:
1) Both players put all their orders into a pouch/cup/something. (Of course the orders must feel the same but look different)
2) Someone draws an order from the cup. The player who owns the order receives it.
* If a player receives a regular order it is placed into the players order pool. That player MAY now choose to use any amount of the orders in the pool or any placed irregular orders.
* If a player receives an irregular order it is placed adjacent to an irregular model. That player MAY now choose to use any amount of the orders in the pool or any placed irregular orders.
* If a player receives an impetuous order it is placed adjacent to an impetuous model. That model must now be activated. After the impetuous order has been executed
that player MAY now choose to use any amount of the orders in the pool or any placed irregular orders.
3) Someone draws a new order from the cup. And repeat...
This would make it possible for a player to execute multiple successive orders, but only if he gives up part of the initiative and doesn't spend the orders at once when he gets them. And every draw of orders would be very exciting. And there would be multiple tactics to how you use your orders, do you spend at once or do you horde. How many orders do you need to activate that Rambo? And so on...
But it would add a lot of complexity and would probably mostly be a bad idea. Fun to play with the thought though.
1) Both players put all their orders into a pouch/cup/something. (Of course the orders must feel the same but look different)
2) Someone draws an order from the cup. The player who owns the order receives it.
* If a player receives a regular order it is placed into the players order pool. That player MAY now choose to use any amount of the orders in the pool or any placed irregular orders.
* If a player receives an irregular order it is placed adjacent to an irregular model. That player MAY now choose to use any amount of the orders in the pool or any placed irregular orders.
* If a player receives an impetuous order it is placed adjacent to an impetuous model. That model must now be activated. After the impetuous order has been executed
that player MAY now choose to use any amount of the orders in the pool or any placed irregular orders.
3) Someone draws a new order from the cup. And repeat...
This would make it possible for a player to execute multiple successive orders, but only if he gives up part of the initiative and doesn't spend the orders at once when he gets them. And every draw of orders would be very exciting. And there would be multiple tactics to how you use your orders, do you spend at once or do you horde. How many orders do you need to activate that Rambo? And so on...
But it would add a lot of complexity and would probably mostly be a bad idea. Fun to play with the thought though.
I have seen a couple of other groups experiment with a Bolt-Action style system, so I am guessing it may be more popular than I thought.
Going off memory here and a lot of this was still WIP...
First thing. UGoIGo isn't a bad system in itself. For many games, it works. However, for games where many units can shoot from one board edge to the opposite edge or from one corner of the board to the opposite corner, UGoIGo is probably not the best choice. But enough talk about that, let's tweak.
Things you will need:
*This needs a bit more detail. You will want to take an image (from the Army builder page at https://army.infinitythegame.com/) for each faction marker and the markers for regular orders and irregular orders. You will take these images into GIMP or Photoshop or a graphics program of your choice. Splice the images vertically down the middle. What you want for Nomads for example is a marker that is half Nomad/half Regular Order and half Nomad/half Irregular Order. Copy one to two, then two to four, four to eight, etc. You will want about 20 of Regular Order markers and 10 of the Irregular Order markers. Print them out. Punch them out. Stick them to the epoxy dome stickers. Toss them in the bag. Repeat for the factions that you want to include in your experiment.
Rule Changes
Initial Roll (p12)
Discard.
Deployment (p12)
To decide which player deploys first, make a Face to Face Roll using their Lieutenant's WIP. The winner of the Deployment Roll can either chose which Deployment Zone to use or pass to the other player and they must choose. After choosing a Deployment Zone, the player must then deploy their troops.
Game Sequence (p12)
The game is played in a series of Rounds, and each round is divided into a number of randomly alternating player activations.
A player randomly draws a marker. The player that owns that marker become the Active Player and the other player becomes the Reactive Player. Regular markers can activate regular or irregular troopers, but irregular markers may only activate irregular troopers. Once the activation is complete, a new marker is randomly drawn.
When there are no more markers left to be drawn, the round ends.
Order Pool (p12)
Each player's number of Orders must equal the number of their troopers that are alive on the table at the beginning of the Round. (Experiment. You can try removing orders as you lose troops. Orders are removed from the spent order pile and when there are no more spent orders left, then from the Combined Order Pool.)
Player Turn (p27)
(Most what used to be in the Player Turn is now incorporated into the Round.)
Each Round is divided into these steps:
Retreat! Check (p27)
Both players count their Victory Points to see if they enter a Retreat! situation.
Loss of Lieutenant Check (p27)
Both players check whether they are in Loss of Lieutenant.
Combined Order Count (previously Order Count) (p27)
Both players count their Regular and Irregular Orders and adds them to Combined Order Pool. The Pool is then randomly mixed.
Order Phase (p27)
A player randomly draws a order marker. The player that owns that order marker become the Active Player and the other player becomes the Reactive Player. Players must activate Extremely Impetuous troopers first, then Impetuous troopers and then non-Impetuous troopers. For example:
*We could not decide here on whether the allow Irregular Orders to remove Extremely Impetuous markers. If you think irregular troopers are too cheap and there aren't enough downsides, then don't allow it. If you want to keep things simpler, then allow it, but some irregular troopers may not get their Irregular Orders as they were spent to remove an Impetuous Order marker.
End of the Round (was End of the Turn) (p27)
When there are no more order markers left to be drawn, the round ends.
Lieutenant Order (p29)
Either player may expend their Lieutenant either at the end of the Active Player's Activation or Conclusion.
Airborne Deployment (p66)
Replace any reference to Entire Order with Short Skill. After that order is expended, the player may also use the trooper's hidden order which will then be added to the Combined Order Pool at the end of the Round. (This automatic two turns in a row represents the element of surprise and to compensate for the fact that the other player may very well be able to react to the trooper much sooner than expected compared to the original rules.)
Hidden Deployment (p72)
A trooper in Hidden Deployment may be activated with an order from the Combined Order Pool. After that order is expended, the player may also use the trooper's hidden order which will then be added to to the Combined Order Pool at the end of the Round. (This automatic two turns in a row represents the element of surprise and to compensate for the fact that the other player may very well be able to react to the trooper much sooner than expected compared to the original rules.)
Command Token: Strategic Use (p 147)
Disregard as there is no longer a first player. (Experiment. At the start of a Round, a player can spend a command token to hold one (or two) of their orders from the Combined Order Pool in reserve and can spend when they are the Active Player.)
Pros:
Cons:
Going off memory here and a lot of this was still WIP...
First thing. UGoIGo isn't a bad system in itself. For many games, it works. However, for games where many units can shoot from one board edge to the opposite edge or from one corner of the board to the opposite corner, UGoIGo is probably not the best choice. But enough talk about that, let's tweak.
Things you will need:
- One deep cup or bag
100 1" Epoxy resin dome stickers (eBay)
1" Circle punch (eBay)
Printouts for each faction*
*This needs a bit more detail. You will want to take an image (from the Army builder page at https://army.infinitythegame.com/) for each faction marker and the markers for regular orders and irregular orders. You will take these images into GIMP or Photoshop or a graphics program of your choice. Splice the images vertically down the middle. What you want for Nomads for example is a marker that is half Nomad/half Regular Order and half Nomad/half Irregular Order. Copy one to two, then two to four, four to eight, etc. You will want about 20 of Regular Order markers and 10 of the Irregular Order markers. Print them out. Punch them out. Stick them to the epoxy dome stickers. Toss them in the bag. Repeat for the factions that you want to include in your experiment.
Rule Changes
Initial Roll (p12)
Discard.
Deployment (p12)
To decide which player deploys first, make a Face to Face Roll using their Lieutenant's WIP. The winner of the Deployment Roll can either chose which Deployment Zone to use or pass to the other player and they must choose. After choosing a Deployment Zone, the player must then deploy their troops.
Game Sequence (p12)
The game is played in a series of Rounds, and each round is divided into a number of randomly alternating player activations.
A player randomly draws a marker. The player that owns that marker become the Active Player and the other player becomes the Reactive Player. Regular markers can activate regular or irregular troopers, but irregular markers may only activate irregular troopers. Once the activation is complete, a new marker is randomly drawn.
When there are no more markers left to be drawn, the round ends.
Order Pool (p12)
Each player's number of Orders must equal the number of their troopers that are alive on the table at the beginning of the Round. (Experiment. You can try removing orders as you lose troops. Orders are removed from the spent order pile and when there are no more spent orders left, then from the Combined Order Pool.)
Player Turn (p27)
(Most what used to be in the Player Turn is now incorporated into the Round.)
Each Round is divided into these steps:
- 1. Tactical Phase
1.1 Retreat! Check
1.2 Loss of Lieutenant Check
1.3 Order Count
1.4 Combined Order Pool
1.5 Impetuous Orders
2. Orders Phase
3. End of Round
Retreat! Check (p27)
Both players count their Victory Points to see if they enter a Retreat! situation.
Loss of Lieutenant Check (p27)
Both players check whether they are in Loss of Lieutenant.
Combined Order Count (previously Order Count) (p27)
Both players count their Regular and Irregular Orders and adds them to Combined Order Pool. The Pool is then randomly mixed.
Order Phase (p27)
A player randomly draws a order marker. The player that owns that order marker become the Active Player and the other player becomes the Reactive Player. Players must activate Extremely Impetuous troopers first, then Impetuous troopers and then non-Impetuous troopers. For example:
- 1. Do they have an Extremely Impetuous marker?
- Yes - the player can:
Expend the order to remove the Extremely Impetuous marker* and then go to step 5; or
Activate the Impetuous Order, remove the Extremely Impetuous marker, return the order marker to Combined Order Pool and then go to step 5.
No - Continue to next step.
- Yes - the player can:
Remove the Impetuous marker and return the order marker to the Combined Order Pool and then go to step 5; or
Activate the Impetuous Order, remove the Impetuous marker, return the order marker to Combined Order Pool and then go to step 5.
No - Continue to next step.
- Yes - Activate any trooper with the Training Characteristic Irregular and leave the Irregular Order Marker by the trooper to indicate that it has used its Irregular Order and then go to step 5.
No - Continue to next step.
- Yes - Activate any trooper and then go to step 5.
- Yes - A player draws an order marker from the Combined Order Pool and start a new Order Phase.
No - Remove any Irregular Order Markers from the table and start a new Round.
*We could not decide here on whether the allow Irregular Orders to remove Extremely Impetuous markers. If you think irregular troopers are too cheap and there aren't enough downsides, then don't allow it. If you want to keep things simpler, then allow it, but some irregular troopers may not get their Irregular Orders as they were spent to remove an Impetuous Order marker.
End of the Round (was End of the Turn) (p27)
When there are no more order markers left to be drawn, the round ends.
Lieutenant Order (p29)
Either player may expend their Lieutenant either at the end of the Active Player's Activation or Conclusion.
Airborne Deployment (p66)
Replace any reference to Entire Order with Short Skill. After that order is expended, the player may also use the trooper's hidden order which will then be added to the Combined Order Pool at the end of the Round. (This automatic two turns in a row represents the element of surprise and to compensate for the fact that the other player may very well be able to react to the trooper much sooner than expected compared to the original rules.)
Hidden Deployment (p72)
A trooper in Hidden Deployment may be activated with an order from the Combined Order Pool. After that order is expended, the player may also use the trooper's hidden order which will then be added to to the Combined Order Pool at the end of the Round. (This automatic two turns in a row represents the element of surprise and to compensate for the fact that the other player may very well be able to react to the trooper much sooner than expected compared to the original rules.)
Command Token: Strategic Use (p 147)
Disregard as there is no longer a first player. (Experiment. At the start of a Round, a player can spend a command token to hold one (or two) of their orders from the Combined Order Pool in reserve and can spend when they are the Active Player.)
Pros:
- Rambo-ing? Gone as the odds of you getting a large number of consecutive orders is very small. Your opponent is also very likely to move to counter the Rambo.
On the other hand, TAGs and other high value troopers become more survivable as you may get opportunity to intervene before they can be killed.
Bad terrain breaking the game? Gone. You can play on a table with no terrain which is something that you really can't do with the vanilla game. It dishes out the horrendous brutality more randomly rather than based on one die roll for initiative.
The can-I-survive-the-first-turn effect? Gone.
Certain missions favoring the player that goes first? Gone.
Certain missions favoring the player that goes second? Gone.
Doctors and Engineers become more valuable as they can intervene before a unit enters a dead state.
The game become more cat and mouse-ish kind of like GiTS if you like that type of thing.
Combat Groups can be discarded. (Experimenting.)
Cons:
- Irregular troops? Well they become a little more unpredictable as you never know when you are going to draw one of their markers.
Air Drop and TO camouflage troopers are riskier as you may activate them and your opponent may get a chance to respond sooner than you expected.
Knowing that Infinity is never going to change from UgoIGo.
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To tell you the truth, the change I want to make to Infinity is to have an initiative roll each turn. Like in Lord of the Rings or Age of Sigmar. Add mods for casualties caused in that turn.
“I'm curious, son. When has 'This might be a trap' ever stopped you?”
“Stopped? Never. Slowed me down while I load the guns? Every time.”
-Schlock Mercenary, 22 July 2013.
“Stopped? Never. Slowed me down while I load the guns? Every time.”
-Schlock Mercenary, 22 July 2013.
Not a fan of the Bolt Action «bag of activations dice concept». I've had very bad experiences against horde lists that had almost double the activations in the bag... 
I prefer :
- Roll for initiative at the beginning of each game turn.
- Player who wins initiative gets first activation :
---> To activate a model it must pass a WIP check. (link teams use the WIP of the link leader for this action)
---> If it succeeds the player spends an order on the model.
---> Impetuous models must activate first and have a +3 on WIP stat for the activation roll as they are very likely to charge forward.
---> A player can try to activate the same model again with a cumulative penalty of -1 WIP for each extra order after the first.
---> If a model fails its WIP activation roll, the order is spent and the model does nothing. Play passes to player B until he fails an activation roll. Play passes to player A again, on so on.
- If a player has more models then the other player at the beginning of a turn, player with less models gets a number of «Free Pass» equal to the difference between the two armies.
- Turn ends when all models on the table have been activated.
For my next game I will try this combined with Limited Insertion (max 10 models).
I prefer :
- Roll for initiative at the beginning of each game turn.
- Player who wins initiative gets first activation :
---> To activate a model it must pass a WIP check. (link teams use the WIP of the link leader for this action)
---> If it succeeds the player spends an order on the model.
---> Impetuous models must activate first and have a +3 on WIP stat for the activation roll as they are very likely to charge forward.
---> A player can try to activate the same model again with a cumulative penalty of -1 WIP for each extra order after the first.
---> If a model fails its WIP activation roll, the order is spent and the model does nothing. Play passes to player B until he fails an activation roll. Play passes to player A again, on so on.
- If a player has more models then the other player at the beginning of a turn, player with less models gets a number of «Free Pass» equal to the difference between the two armies.
- Turn ends when all models on the table have been activated.
For my next game I will try this combined with Limited Insertion (max 10 models).
Last edited by MARC C on April 16th, 2017, 6:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Well, I'm digesting another WW2 ruleset, Chain of Command, lately.
They have a nice mechanic there, if a bit difficult to import directly to Infinity:
At the start of a "phase" (effectively, a fraction of a turn) you roll a number of d6's based on the quality of your force (no less than 4, no more than 6, 5 being the obvious average).
6s determine the phase sequence: 0-1 6s menas next phase will be opponent's. 2 6s mean next phase will be again your phase. 3 6s means this is the last phase of this turn ("big" turn!) but the first phase of the next turn will be yours again. 4 or more 6s is same as 3, but also brings in a random event (like, a blind artillery barrage pounding on a section of the battlefield, or weather breaking, or something else).
Now, a turn end is an interesting point: it means various long-term effects cease effect (for example, smoke screens clear).
5s add points to your CoC Dice. Once you have 6 points (i.e. a die) you can spend it in several ways that resemble - vaguely - Command Token use in Infinity (especially Strategic Command Token use).
Lower results are for activating various classes / sizes of units, although the rules assume that one unit can be activated only once per phase (however, an activated leader - junior, like squad leader, or senior, like platoon NCO) can issue activations to nearby units, as well as make them perform actions not ocnsidered Activation on their own.
They have a nice mechanic there, if a bit difficult to import directly to Infinity:
At the start of a "phase" (effectively, a fraction of a turn) you roll a number of d6's based on the quality of your force (no less than 4, no more than 6, 5 being the obvious average).
6s determine the phase sequence: 0-1 6s menas next phase will be opponent's. 2 6s mean next phase will be again your phase. 3 6s means this is the last phase of this turn ("big" turn!) but the first phase of the next turn will be yours again. 4 or more 6s is same as 3, but also brings in a random event (like, a blind artillery barrage pounding on a section of the battlefield, or weather breaking, or something else).
Now, a turn end is an interesting point: it means various long-term effects cease effect (for example, smoke screens clear).
5s add points to your CoC Dice. Once you have 6 points (i.e. a die) you can spend it in several ways that resemble - vaguely - Command Token use in Infinity (especially Strategic Command Token use).
Lower results are for activating various classes / sizes of units, although the rules assume that one unit can be activated only once per phase (however, an activated leader - junior, like squad leader, or senior, like platoon NCO) can issue activations to nearby units, as well as make them perform actions not ocnsidered Activation on their own.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
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